Promitheus
I have datasheets for all the KEF drive units that were available to the DIY market. Send me an email and I'll copy the T33B SP1210 details to you. The B160 SP1222 will be more of a problem as, so far as I am aware, it was never sold as a DIY product and so the datasheet wasn't available from KEF.
Geoff
I have datasheets for all the KEF drive units that were available to the DIY market. Send me an email and I'll copy the T33B SP1210 details to you. The B160 SP1222 will be more of a problem as, so far as I am aware, it was never sold as a DIY product and so the datasheet wasn't available from KEF.
Geoff
Data for the Kef 160
I type the main data for you first, I have no scanner here, so please be patient, I am going to have it scanned in soon.
The data is NOT from a KEF data page, it is from the german mag "Klang & Ton", #4/93.
They have also included an interesting plan for a band-pass subwoofer too in the same article. Not bad, isn't it?
The KEF 160 was a part of the (once) famous KEF104 and is only usable for bass purposes. You can mount a steel rod right through it !
-----------------------------------------------------
KEF B 160 / 8 Ohm
8 Ohm
50 W
woofer
thiele-small data:
Re 7.4 Ohms
Le 0.61 mH
fs 40 Hz
Qms 5.45
Qts 0.30
Qts (8Ohm) 0.33
Sd 131 cm3
Vas 42 Liter
Cms 1.75 mm/N
Mms 9 g
B*l 7.3 N/A
SPL 91
measures:
outside 173 / 177 mm
hole dia. 141 mm
depth 72 mm
membran paper / foam / foam
coil dia. 25 mm
gasket steel
best wishes
Klaus
ps: where did you get this speakers from ?
I type the main data for you first, I have no scanner here, so please be patient, I am going to have it scanned in soon.
The data is NOT from a KEF data page, it is from the german mag "Klang & Ton", #4/93.
They have also included an interesting plan for a band-pass subwoofer too in the same article. Not bad, isn't it?
The KEF 160 was a part of the (once) famous KEF104 and is only usable for bass purposes. You can mount a steel rod right through it !
-----------------------------------------------------
KEF B 160 / 8 Ohm
8 Ohm
50 W
woofer
thiele-small data:
Re 7.4 Ohms
Le 0.61 mH
fs 40 Hz
Qms 5.45
Qts 0.30
Qts (8Ohm) 0.33
Sd 131 cm3
Vas 42 Liter
Cms 1.75 mm/N
Mms 9 g
B*l 7.3 N/A
SPL 91
measures:
outside 173 / 177 mm
hole dia. 141 mm
depth 72 mm
membran paper / foam / foam
coil dia. 25 mm
gasket steel
best wishes
Klaus
ps: where did you get this speakers from ?
Geoff many thanks, I got your email and I allready printed it 
)))).
Nisbeth I can try that and see if I get a reply, but from telephone I tried once I couldnt get something usefull. Anyway...
Lohk that´s wonderfull. I can transfer that somewhere and print it. If it is possible to scan your data it would be ideal.
Thanks again to everyone so far.
Ilias
)))). Nisbeth I can try that and see if I get a reply, but from telephone I tried once I couldnt get something usefull. Anyway...
Lohk that´s wonderfull. I can transfer that somewhere and print it. If it is possible to scan your data it would be ideal.
Thanks again to everyone so far.
Ilias
I just found this on the net.
http://www.hal-pc.org/~bwhitejr/drivers.xls
It a list of driver data.
I do not use excel, so I did not evaluate it.
http://www.hal-pc.org/~bwhitejr/drivers.xls
It a list of driver data.
I do not use excel, so I did not evaluate it.
Hmmmm....
This sounds interesting. I am the (still!) happy owner of some KEF 104/2 loudspeakers. Does anyone know what drivers were used in this model (purchased in the early to mid 1980s) and where I could get specs on the drivers? I think about redoing the crossover: measuring the drivers' characteristics, tweaking the crossover board with better quality, tighter tolerance parts with values chosen to match the particular drivers, but I hear stories of such difficulty getting to the crossover. Call me chicken... I just say if the KEFs are down, I'd need more than my DT990 headcans
Michael
This sounds interesting. I am the (still!) happy owner of some KEF 104/2 loudspeakers. Does anyone know what drivers were used in this model (purchased in the early to mid 1980s) and where I could get specs on the drivers? I think about redoing the crossover: measuring the drivers' characteristics, tweaking the crossover board with better quality, tighter tolerance parts with values chosen to match the particular drivers, but I hear stories of such difficulty getting to the crossover. Call me chicken... I just say if the KEFs are down, I'd need more than my DT990 headcans
Michael
Promitheus:
Please email me your actual (german?) postal adress, so that I can send you photocopies of KEF160 data and applications. A letter is ready and wainting to be sent. I have no access to a scanner right now.
Michael:
Drivers in the KEF104/2:
This is/was a five loudspeaker / three way design.
2 x KEF160 inside in a three chamber bandpass bass-reflex system in the main case (a big sized port in front), and outside a separate MTM assembly with special drivers (slightly similar in size to 2 x KEFB110 and 1 x KEFT33, but with different cones, different compliancy etc.). The assembly is only detachable as a whole, single mid and high drivers cannot be removed or changed alone. The crossover was inside the small box too, I think.
A genuine 4 Ohm design.
Redoing the crossover of a 104/2 will be a VERY tricky task, I would rather let it if you are satisfied with your loudspeaker.
And be careful: There are probably no more spares available, and if something happens you would have to change many expensive chassis at the same time anyway.
There was also a KEF104ab, which was different model from the early eighties. This was a 35l so called three way design with a BD139A (the legendary oval chassis as a passive resonator), a B200-Sp1039 (Qts 0.45) and the T27A (also known from the LS3/5). This loudspeaker had a contour control for the 1.5khz midrange.
The B300 was only used in the KEF105/2 (the B&W 801 counterpart, a 70l/8.5l three-box design), together with a B110B and a T52B.
There was also an earlier version called 105.4 (a 40l/8.5l three-box design) with 2 x B200G-SP1075, B110B and T33A.
I actually should know everything much better, because I was selling the 104/2s in the mid-eighties, when I was working with a hifi-company in Vienna. I will browse through old magazines to get it right if necessary.
I have almost all data of KEF DIY loudspeaker chassis, at least from this time, but only a few crossover schematics.
Klaus
Please email me your actual (german?) postal adress, so that I can send you photocopies of KEF160 data and applications. A letter is ready and wainting to be sent. I have no access to a scanner right now.
Michael:
Drivers in the KEF104/2:
This is/was a five loudspeaker / three way design.
2 x KEF160 inside in a three chamber bandpass bass-reflex system in the main case (a big sized port in front), and outside a separate MTM assembly with special drivers (slightly similar in size to 2 x KEFB110 and 1 x KEFT33, but with different cones, different compliancy etc.). The assembly is only detachable as a whole, single mid and high drivers cannot be removed or changed alone. The crossover was inside the small box too, I think.
A genuine 4 Ohm design.
Redoing the crossover of a 104/2 will be a VERY tricky task, I would rather let it if you are satisfied with your loudspeaker.
And be careful: There are probably no more spares available, and if something happens you would have to change many expensive chassis at the same time anyway.
There was also a KEF104ab, which was different model from the early eighties. This was a 35l so called three way design with a BD139A (the legendary oval chassis as a passive resonator), a B200-Sp1039 (Qts 0.45) and the T27A (also known from the LS3/5). This loudspeaker had a contour control for the 1.5khz midrange.
The B300 was only used in the KEF105/2 (the B&W 801 counterpart, a 70l/8.5l three-box design), together with a B110B and a T52B.
There was also an earlier version called 105.4 (a 40l/8.5l three-box design) with 2 x B200G-SP1075, B110B and T33A.
I actually should know everything much better, because I was selling the 104/2s in the mid-eighties, when I was working with a hifi-company in Vienna. I will browse through old magazines to get it right if necessary.
I have almost all data of KEF DIY loudspeaker chassis, at least from this time, but only a few crossover schematics.
Klaus
Michael, Klaus is correct about the driver complement in the 104/2, except that the bass drivers in the coupled cavity were 8 inch. It was the 103/4 that used 6 inch drivers along with a UNI-Q mid/tweeter. The crossover in the 104/2 is very complex. It incorporates full conjugation for the drivers and the overall impedance, in order to produce a pure 4 ohm input impedance, +/- 0.5 ohms over the whole frequency band. This was done in order to reduce the interaction with the cable resistance and amplifier output impedance, and to minimise heat dissipation in the amplifier. A further complication is that ALL components in the crossover are mixed and matched to gaurantee minimum departure from the reference response. This was done by measuring every capacitor, inductor and resistor and then sorting them into 1% tolerence bands. Then, for every deviation from nominal , we would re-calculate the crossover response on the computer and adjust the other components to compensate for this deviation. We built up extensive "build charts" that then allowed full utilization of the components we had measured. So although the marked value on a capacitor might be 10uF, it could deviate from this by up to 10%, and yet by proper selection of the tolerence deviation of some of the other components the crossover would still measure within 0.1 to 0.2dB of the reference. If you start replacing these components with "nominal" values, the response of the crossover will deviate from the reference. Sure it will sound different, but not neccessarily for the reason that the component quality is "higher". I would advise to leave well alone.
The midrange section was unusual in that the 5" drivers were assembled directly to the midrange enclosure without any chassis. The enclosure itself was lined with a thermosetting rubber to damp the panel resonances. Midrange unit replacement was not possible in the field, it was neccessary to return the complete assembly. I don't know whether KEF still offer repair services on this model, another reason not to fiddle with the crossover!
As for getting to the cossover, from (my dim) memory it is in one of two places, either fastened to the removable bottom plate of the bass cabinet, or to the inside surface of a removable plate hidden behind the midrange enclosure.
If you choose to go looking for it, be very carefull not to damage the seals when you remove the panels. The correct performance of coupled cavities is critically dependant on sealing the cavities correctly.
Whatever your course of action, enjoy yourself!
The midrange section was unusual in that the 5" drivers were assembled directly to the midrange enclosure without any chassis. The enclosure itself was lined with a thermosetting rubber to damp the panel resonances. Midrange unit replacement was not possible in the field, it was neccessary to return the complete assembly. I don't know whether KEF still offer repair services on this model, another reason not to fiddle with the crossover!
As for getting to the cossover, from (my dim) memory it is in one of two places, either fastened to the removable bottom plate of the bass cabinet, or to the inside surface of a removable plate hidden behind the midrange enclosure.
If you choose to go looking for it, be very carefull not to damage the seals when you remove the panels. The correct performance of coupled cavities is critically dependant on sealing the cavities correctly.
Whatever your course of action, enjoy yourself!
Andrew and Lohk:
Thanks for your input! I found out more than I expected. Andrew, it sounds like what I wanted to do has already been done, so I will simply continue to enjoy them. I had to change tweeters this year (one failed, I bought a matched pair of replacements and put them in). It sounds like you worked for KEF?
After all these years (and the many homebrew amps, preamps, etc.), I still really like 'em.
Of course, I drool over my friend's Sound Labs, but that's another story
Michael
Thanks for your input! I found out more than I expected. Andrew, it sounds like what I wanted to do has already been done, so I will simply continue to enjoy them. I had to change tweeters this year (one failed, I bought a matched pair of replacements and put them in). It sounds like you worked for KEF?
After all these years (and the many homebrew amps, preamps, etc.), I still really like 'em.
Of course, I drool over my friend's Sound Labs, but that's another story
Michael
KEF 104/2
To the user posting about the speaker grills for sale, please contact me off-list if they're still for sale. Thanks.
TRC
straylight@aol.com
To the user posting about the speaker grills for sale, please contact me off-list if they're still for sale. Thanks.
TRC
straylight@aol.com
I'm a new member looking for some advice.... is it possible to modify 104's to 104ab's by changing the crossover? I think they shared the same drivers....- Status
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