I just got a nice pair of Yamaha NS-10M studio monitors,
however one of the monitors has a small crack (about 10mm, half moon shaped) placed in the middle between the center cone and the ring surrounding the woofer.
- What would be the best way to fix it with minimal damage to frequency response and clarity of sound ?
- Will leaving it like this would be the best solution (rather than gluing it ?)
- If gluing is the recommended solution, which technique is the best ?
Thank you all !
however one of the monitors has a small crack (about 10mm, half moon shaped) placed in the middle between the center cone and the ring surrounding the woofer.
- What would be the best way to fix it with minimal damage to frequency response and clarity of sound ?
- Will leaving it like this would be the best solution (rather than gluing it ?)
- If gluing is the recommended solution, which technique is the best ?
Thank you all !
markus76 said:
Interesting that they (NS-10M's) were recently recognized by the US recording industry, with a 2007 technical GRAMMY, must say they worth something more positive than what you imply. I'm sure they had some proper in-house engineering, including above average quality components and reliability to boot. Possibly this is just your view of all studio near field monitors or is it just brand specific.
http://www.studioreviews.com/01-12-07-yamaha.htm
markus76 said:
Don't you mean Recording Engineer? An audio engineer is too broad a field as there would be no consensus at all just unfounded opinions.
These monitor's are well known to have really flat response (clinical), so much in fact that a lot of engineer's don't care for the sound as they are used to a more warmer tone (i.e. speakers with some BSC usually). Most non pro's don't know how to use them anyway (near-field only). These ubiquitous monitors are the defacto standard. Chances are that 70-80% of pop music has been mixed with these.
infinia said:
Show me
I had to work with those speakers a couple of years. Look at Klein + Hummel or ME-Geithain. That's flat. The NS-10s aren't.Best, Markus
P.S. Googled frequency response:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Then show me your measurements. You don't know what you're talking about. Smooth rolloff for a nearfield monitor? The NS-10s are fine to make a mix compatible with the average listening equipment and environment found on the consumer side. Nothing more. No high end voodoo magic. Talk to an audio engineer but you probably won't believe him because you don't believe me. So this discussion is pointless.
Best, Markus
Best, Markus
"Ich bin ein audio engineer"markus76 said:
Which of my statements is false.
Why don't you google NS-10s. I really have no personal preferences to them, just making a point that they are indeed studio reference monitors, and would mostly would sound like cr*p if used incorrectly. BTW It doesn't help to be personally insulting.
Wir sagen Tonmeister oder Toningenieur.
I really don't know what's the point in repeating what I've already said, but you asked for it:
They are NOT FLAT. Not even near. They can be a useful tool while mixing. But they sound awful.
And that's why every review I've ever read criticized their build quality?
I've seen a couple of NS-10s dying. But I've seen other speakers dying too.
But the whole discussion is still pointless because neither of us has ever measured them. Sorry that the facts are insulting to you.
I really don't know what's the point in repeating what I've already said, but you asked for it:
They are NOT FLAT. Not even near. They can be a useful tool while mixing. But they sound awful.
And that's why every review I've ever read criticized their build quality?
I've seen a couple of NS-10s dying. But I've seen other speakers dying too.
But the whole discussion is still pointless because neither of us has ever measured them. Sorry that the facts are insulting to you.
From ProductWiki, free unbiased product reports for the consumer.
The Yamaha NS-10M studio reference monitor speaker (aka NS10M) is widely popular amongst audio professionals, and is notorious for its very flat frequency response even to the point that they are not pleasant to listen to. The wants and needs of the audio engineer are different than the typical consumer, so this is a welcome thing as the NS-10M monitors will reveal the truth of mix. The NS-10M studio monitors are almost an industry standard for mixing and are easily recognized by their standout white mid-range driver. From link http://www.productwiki.com/yamaha-ns-10m/
Product spec sheet also shows flat frequency response. See link below
http://www.ns-10.net/pdf/ns10mstudioe.pdf
IMO Frequency response is good for a small sealed 2 way 7” woofer and dome tweeter. Due to its sealed woofer design LF corner freq is highish which tends for a bass shy sound. This is a advantage in small mixing rooms making it easier integrate with rising room gains. As anybody who has done any speaker measurements knows that frequency response is very dependant on room and placement. Notice frequency response changes from Fig 1 & 2 to get an idea how the response effects due to mixing desk placement. See link below
http://www.bobhodas.com/tissue.html
P.S. Just repeating anonymous chatter (review sites) from the web doesn’t make something a fact.
The Yamaha NS-10M studio reference monitor speaker (aka NS10M) is widely popular amongst audio professionals, and is notorious for its very flat frequency response even to the point that they are not pleasant to listen to. The wants and needs of the audio engineer are different than the typical consumer, so this is a welcome thing as the NS-10M monitors will reveal the truth of mix. The NS-10M studio monitors are almost an industry standard for mixing and are easily recognized by their standout white mid-range driver. From link http://www.productwiki.com/yamaha-ns-10m/
Product spec sheet also shows flat frequency response. See link below
http://www.ns-10.net/pdf/ns10mstudioe.pdf
IMO Frequency response is good for a small sealed 2 way 7” woofer and dome tweeter. Due to its sealed woofer design LF corner freq is highish which tends for a bass shy sound. This is a advantage in small mixing rooms making it easier integrate with rising room gains. As anybody who has done any speaker measurements knows that frequency response is very dependant on room and placement. Notice frequency response changes from Fig 1 & 2 to get an idea how the response effects due to mixing desk placement. See link below
http://www.bobhodas.com/tissue.html
P.S. Just repeating anonymous chatter (review sites) from the web doesn’t make something a fact.
What are you trying to say? The NS-10s are not flat. Even Yamahas own diagram shows that this speaker sounds colored. But to speak with your own words: "Graphs are meaningless unless measurement methology are included!" Speaking of "unbiased reviews" and "repeating anonymous chatter": http://www.ns-10.net/ I think I read exact the same words somewhere else
Please let's stop this pointless discussion. gilwe wanted to know how to repair his speakers.
Affe sieht Affen tun
You simply dissed his speakers in your reply to the original posters query on repair. I just posted an interestng fact about them counter to your perception of them, which you are continuing to refute without basis.
P.S. Links I provided are not anonymous and have the test conditions mentioned in text where the graph is given.
You simply dissed his speakers in your reply to the original posters query on repair. I just posted an interestng fact about them counter to your perception of them, which you are continuing to refute without basis.
P.S. Links I provided are not anonymous and have the test conditions mentioned in text where the graph is given.
I think it was said if you mixed to make the music sound good on a NS10M, then it will sound good on almost anything.
I don't think it's a thing about them being good, flat, coloured or whatever, the people that use them have become so used to using them and their idiosyncacies that it has become a reliable tool. To put the fear of god into a recording engineer etc, change the monitoring speakers.
I have owned some NS10M speakers and were very good for nearfield even without tissues over the tweeters. When I finished with them after over 20 years use, they were snapped up by a recording studio for 3 times what I paid for them.
I don't think it's a thing about them being good, flat, coloured or whatever, the people that use them have become so used to using them and their idiosyncacies that it has become a reliable tool. To put the fear of god into a recording engineer etc, change the monitoring speakers.
I have owned some NS10M speakers and were very good for nearfield even without tissues over the tweeters. When I finished with them after over 20 years use, they were snapped up by a recording studio for 3 times what I paid for them.
gilwe
Back to your question, I've used PVA glue on these cones with no ill effect to the sound. Start on the back of the cone and add a layer of tissue a bit bigger than the crack and brush on some PVA that is watered down. When dried do another layer that a little bigger again and when that is dry just the watered down PVA over the repair.
You can then add some watered down PVA to the front of the crack. The odds are if you have a crack, more will likely appear.
The crack needs to be repaired as it is a sealed box so air leaks are not desirable.
Before trying this, have a look at some of the pro / studio forums as there's normally plenty of info and advice on the NS10M.
Back to your question, I've used PVA glue on these cones with no ill effect to the sound. Start on the back of the cone and add a layer of tissue a bit bigger than the crack and brush on some PVA that is watered down. When dried do another layer that a little bigger again and when that is dry just the watered down PVA over the repair.
You can then add some watered down PVA to the front of the crack. The odds are if you have a crack, more will likely appear.
The crack needs to be repaired as it is a sealed box so air leaks are not desirable.
Before trying this, have a look at some of the pro / studio forums as there's normally plenty of info and advice on the NS10M.
rabbitz said:
Rabbitz - Great tips on PVA/tissue repair.
In my experience it's mandatory to repair before running at higher levels, as escaping air flow tends to make cracks/holes get larger.
I agree pretty much with all of your other comments as well.
regards,
PS who really knows what the term "flat" really means anyway. If a speaker measures well (flat +/- 2 dB) in an anechoic chamber, It will not be the same in it's true intented application. Not even to mention offaxis responses, as well as sideways consol bridge placement and the tissue covered tweeters.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.