I plan to build studio monitors. Instead of speaker stands, I thought I could build a tall skinny box (9x11x48), and use all that air to get low end. My dilemma is this: I want f3 at 35 or so in a sealed box. If I use a 3 way system I lose a lot of phase alignment in the all important 70-200 range - but if I build a 2 way, I need a driver that will go 35 to 2500 and sound fabulous.
Even if I do use a 3 way, I have not seen an 8" that will go that low in a sealed 2.5 cubic foot enclosure. I could use a 10" but that's just too much in a near-field system.
For a monitor system flat is essential, low signal compression is essential, and transient response is key - but I don't need big db. Once I have drivers I can design the box and crossover details.
Comments help sugggestions please. I'm looking for high end types of solutions only. Ted.
Even if I do use a 3 way, I have not seen an 8" that will go that low in a sealed 2.5 cubic foot enclosure. I could use a 10" but that's just too much in a near-field system.
For a monitor system flat is essential, low signal compression is essential, and transient response is key - but I don't need big db. Once I have drivers I can design the box and crossover details.
Comments help sugggestions please. I'm looking for high end types of solutions only. Ted.
I've chosen the Seas Excel 8" woofers and Seas 27TAFC/G tweeters, in BR enclosure though (50L @30Hz). It can be easily converted to sealed box in case there's too much low end. I'm using a waveguide with the tweeter. I'm just building the cabinets so I haven't got any ideas how it will sound (though I have another pair of speakers with quite similar construction, eg. 6.5" Seas built aluminium woofers and 25 mm aluminium tweeters in a waveguide). I guess these speakers will be quite directive overall which is good IMHO. Obviously the baffle step attenuates the low end but on the other hand the room almost fixes it. I'm going to use DSP FIR + analog 24 dB/oct Linkwitz-Riley xovers, summed before going into power ampliers, as for realtime monitoring the delay of FIR (which is half of the impulse response)is a bad thing. The DSP is actually my PC and the progam is Cubase (I'll write or use some ready available convolver VST plugin).
That guy makes awesome stuff. Maybe consider a 2.5 way with two 8 inch speakers. In a large low Q sealed box, the second woofer could be used to fill out the low end. Planet 10 knows a bit about these...
Why rule out vented boxes? Lots of studio monitors have vented boxes.
Look at the HiVi F8, gets great mids and deep bass. I've got a couple right in front of me. Very pleased. 2 of those in a 2.5 way configuation in a 2 to 3 ft^3 vented tower would be very nice.
we'll see...
-andy
Why rule out vented boxes? Lots of studio monitors have vented boxes.
Look at the HiVi F8, gets great mids and deep bass. I've got a couple right in front of me. Very pleased. 2 of those in a 2.5 way configuation in a 2 to 3 ft^3 vented tower would be very nice.
we'll see...
-andy
uli,
did you measure the breakup point/points and designed a trap filter to EQ it?
This is a must with the Excel´s. I have only listened to the 5" ers and they sounded really good.
I read about one person (who was selling drivers and components from all premium brands) who felt that even when the break up´s was treated , the Accuton was slightly smoother and more natural sounding in the higher range.
/Peter
did you measure the breakup point/points and designed a trap filter to EQ it?
This is a must with the Excel´s. I have only listened to the 5" ers and they sounded really good.
I read about one person (who was selling drivers and components from all premium brands) who felt that even when the break up´s was treated , the Accuton was slightly smoother and more natural sounding in the higher range.
/Peter
my ability
Hi Peter,
yes I did but somehow I didn´t manage them to sound well
(subjective of course) Without the trap they sounded metallic
and with trap dull. Maybe my fault but I do not like speakers
which have such issues especially for that huge pricetag.
I long worked with the famous SS 8545. I try now to get those
Usher 7" s as they cost below 200 € for a matched(!) pair.
Uli
Pan said:
Hi Peter,
yes I did but somehow I didn´t manage them to sound well
(subjective of course) Without the trap they sounded metallic
and with trap dull. Maybe my fault but I do not like speakers
which have such issues especially for that huge pricetag.
I long worked with the famous SS 8545. I try now to get those
Usher 7" s as they cost below 200 € for a matched(!) pair.
Uli
Problem with Excel series magnesium cone (and aluminium cone) drivers is that the cone breakup is actually created at lower frequencies than the resonance frequency itself. If you look into distortion figures @ 1500 Hz (around) please note the 3rd harmonic distortion @ 4500 Hz. So you should have the crossover at max. 1500 Hz or so. I think this is independent of the size of the driver, I mean from 5" to 8" all Excels are suffering from this. It doesn't help if you just filter out the frequencies >4kHz, the cone breakup is still there at lower frequencies. So a steep (at least 24 dB/oct or more) crossover at low frequency (1000-1500 Hz) is a must.
mhelin
I´ve also noticed the rise in dist. at 1/3f of the break up.
Looking at Accuton drivers this peak is not as noticable as I believe is due to the better behaved/more controled break up of those drivers. Maybe this is why some people like Accutons better than Excels, even though the broadband THD tend to be slightly higher on the Acc´s sometimes, not on all units though. Also hard to compare as they measure at different levels.
/Peter
I´ve also noticed the rise in dist. at 1/3f of the break up.
Looking at Accuton drivers this peak is not as noticable as I believe is due to the better behaved/more controled break up of those drivers. Maybe this is why some people like Accutons better than Excels, even though the broadband THD tend to be slightly higher on the Acc´s sometimes, not on all units though. Also hard to compare as they measure at different levels.
/Peter
Re: frequency
Uli, I have high end speakers which are crossed at 1200 Hz:
Amphion Argon2
uli said:mhelin,
Who needs a midwoofer crossed over at 1.5K?????
If this is true this speaker disqualifies itself for hi end
usage!
Love my (carbon)paper coned 7"ers driven up to 3.5k.
Uli
Uli, I have high end speakers which are crossed at 1200 Hz:
Amphion Argon2
IMO not the fact that one crosses over in the midrange is causing problems, but HOW it is done.
If the proper techniques are used, then it shouldn't be a problem.
The "waveguide" of Helin's (that name sounds like an old Viking one) speaker might play a role regarding inaudibility of the crossover.
Regards
Charles
/using phase_accurate crossovers
If the proper techniques are used, then it shouldn't be a problem.
The "waveguide" of Helin's (that name sounds like an old Viking one) speaker might play a role regarding inaudibility of the crossover.
Regards
Charles
/using phase_accurate crossovers
Seems to me that in a monitor, where predictable response is critical, we should try to keep things as simple as possible.
Also, we should be concerned with the crossover. Without proper measuring equipment, it will be hard to get a flat response. Do you have measureing equipment? What kind?
-andy
Also, we should be concerned with the crossover. Without proper measuring equipment, it will be hard to get a flat response. Do you have measureing equipment? What kind?
-andy
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