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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 25th August 2008, 08:14 AM   #1
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Default How's your image ?

Hi,
Good imaging is one of those important but sometimes illusive qualities in a top system.
An effect I have noticed on several occasions and on different systems is this. Try a good radio broadcast for starters -- voice -- and kneel down a couple of feet in front of the speakers but facing away from them. The image although obviously behind you can be absolutely pin sharp. Now try it with a good CD, perhaps one with vocals. The image really does seem to have great "depth" , and the effect can be quite startling. Anyone ever noticed this.
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Old 25th August 2008, 09:40 AM   #2
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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no, have not noted or tried this

sure i will
this must be investigated
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Old 25th August 2008, 11:26 AM   #3
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try ambiophonics.
I got solid center (with non time aligned 3 ways) and wide stage.

http://www.ambiophonics.org/Figure4.htm
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pol.bct/exemples/Ambio.htm

but I'm not too keen on a line of full range drivers unless they are focused at listening spot.
I do like the looks of these though.
http://www.atssounds.com/ImageGaller...een&cache=True

Norman
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Old 25th August 2008, 11:35 AM   #4
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Many thanks for the links -- will have a good read
Just curious really, I am pleased with my set up in ordinary use, the imaging is excellent, but this effect I have noted ( over many years ) is just so striking. Didn't seem to matter whether it was with smallish speakers like the Celestion SL6 and SL100 or large floorstanders like the B&W703's the effect was the same.

Hi Lineup --- try it !
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Old 25th August 2008, 02:42 PM   #5
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Well this might be actually a psychoacoustic effect from the early days of evolution: our hearing was made for survival and it was probably more important for the stone age people to accurately locate sounds coming from behind, where seeing did not help much !

I have also noticed this effect. I am wondering if there are any psycho acoustic studies on it - one could try to test it on real sounds as well (not coming from loudspeakers) to see if reproduces.
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Old 25th August 2008, 05:08 PM   #6
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Mooly,
is imaging better because you face away, or is it because you kneel down ?
A part of the socalled listening fatigue comes from contradiction between visual and audio messages when listening to recorded sound. Your ears hear a concert hall, your eyes see your listening room, and your brain tries to picture something plausible from these two opposite informations.
I guess that long time listening to sounds coming from your back will disturb your brain too, as we inherited from early ages of mankind an alert system about sounds coming from behind that could come from a predator seeing you as his next meal ! We even can be disturbed if someone is looking at us in our back !
Personaly, I love mono (specialy when listening to radio) because you LISTEN to music and don't try to SEE it.
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Old 25th August 2008, 06:14 PM   #7
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Hello bzfcocon & Funambule,
Never thought of that, some Dinosaur wondering what's for it's tea
The effect does seem very real though, and yes height and head position do influence it greatly. So vivid is it that you can seemingly "locate" say a vocalist to within inches, there is no spread in the sound, it really is "perfect" presentation. It has real depth behind the speakers as well. As soon as you turn to face the speakers much of that absolute precision is lost, no matter where you listen.
I often listen eyes closed, and although my system images very well, it's a totally different kind of imaging if that make any sense to the effect described.
Will have to try it on real sounds -- that should get some funny looks
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Old 26th August 2008, 12:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
The image really does seem to have great "depth" , and the effect can be quite startling. Anyone ever noticed this.
Yes. In building several pairs of speakers, I have particularly noticed how the image varies with different crossovers. Even crossovers that look virtually identical in the simulator will produce images that vary in depth, width, and 3-dimensionality.

JJ
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Old 26th August 2008, 02:19 AM   #9
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Try dipole speakers and ES Posthumus songs
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Old 26th August 2008, 03:06 AM   #10
croat47 is offline croat47  United States
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Default Evolutionary discord

Question about the "evolution" theory...

If we needed to properly locate things behind us, why are our ears cupped forward?

Would it not be a better assumption that the psycho-acoustic event is that our eyes are in front, requiring that we each develop a better idea of what is behind us.

The kid in the play yard who more quickly figures out his audible cues to a ensuing bully or tag opponent wins the game.

But, still along the lines that we are not letting our visual cues foul our audible ones.
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