Wilson Watt Puppy Clone Design - Design Review Please - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th August 2008, 04:48 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Question Wilson Watt Puppy Clone Design - Design Review Please

Hi,

Watt Puppy Clone using:

1 x Focal TC120
1 x Scan-Speaker 18W8545
2 x Peerless PPB 831868

Cabinet Overview
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/803/cabge6.gif

Tweeter and Midrange Crossover
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3308/woofervo1.gif

Woofer Crossover
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4876/tweetermidiy6.gif

Dimensions:
Tweeter/mid - http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3272/cab2ro5.gif
Woofer - HxWxD - 574mm X 257mm x 420mm
-The Port is of 75mm inner diameter and about 200mm long

What you think?

Any advice on the woofer enclosure?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 07:13 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Brisso57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the leafy west of Brisbane
Default Costs?

What do you estimate to be the cost of the drivers and the cross-over components?

cheers

Doug
__________________
A speaker-builder's parable: "That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle of all."
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 01:44 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

Using crossovers developed for particular drivers with other drivers is not a good idea.


/sreten.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 01:51 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
How did you design the crossovers. Were they designed using measurements of your drivers?

Regards,

Dennis
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 03:41 PM   #5
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
The crossovers are from here : http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/vzone/david/david.htm

/sreten.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2008, 06:31 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
The crossovers are from here : http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/vzone/david/david.htm

/sreten.
Sorry Sreten,

We must have been posting at the same time. I didn't realize that these were Thorston's XOs. And just to mirror your comments, a XO is designed for specific drivers and most likely won't well with substitutions.

Regards,

Dennis
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 01:00 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
David Gatti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Agree with the above. Principle looks good, but it's all in the details. Also beware of an overall low impedance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 04:59 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Dr. Ram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Polynomialand
Default Re: Wilson Watt Puppy Clone Design - Design Review Please

Quote:
Originally posted by soundengine355

What you think?

Any advice on the woofer enclosure?
Hi:
There are several tradeoffs involved in enclosure and crossover design. The starting point would be the tradeoff between transient response and low frequency extension. This is what the subject of "alignments" tries to address.
Have you designed the enclosure to meet any specific alignment for your specific drivers?
As for crossovers, similar advice has already been posted. I will elaborate by saying that again there are tradeoffs. What are yours? Complexity and component count versus intermodulation distortion (the higher the order, the greater the former and the less the latter)? Flatness of passband response versus transient response (Butterworth filters have more of the former and less of the latter compared to Bessel)? Transient purity versus phase purity (LR filters have less of both compared to Bessel)

If you really want to get it right, it is good to do it scientifically. Make take more time and energy but you will get it right during design rather than end up tweaking it after construction (usually with no gain).

-Ram
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 02:07 PM   #9
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
diyAudio Member
 
PB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North East
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Wilson Watt Puppy Clone Design - Design Review Please

I mentioned 10 or 15 years ago on the bass list that I was cloning the Watt/Puppy. I probably should not have used the word clone since it caused a major controversy. So let me, rephrase that and say that I was going to do an approximate copy since it would be difficult to duplicate the materials used in the enclosure and the tweeter looked to be a custom unit.

I have cloned several commercial designs with excellent results so there was no need to argue the matter.

I did not have an actual Watt/Puppy to measure but there was enough information between the Audio and several other reviews to reverse engineer the crossover with fairly high confidence. The number of components was given and the electrical transfer functions as I recall. I did most of the modelling, purchased the drivers that I could find that appeared to be from the Watt and was looking around for lower cost woofer replacements. The woofers in the Puppy were Dynaudio's at that time with excellent large signal capability.

I explained my methods to Thorsten, sent him photo copies of the reviews, and he did the copies that you see at that web site. I believe that Thorsten used all different drivers from what I suggested based on his preference and availablity.

I saw and heard the Watt/Puppy in NYC at a show and took a close look at the drivers. The tweeters looked like the Focal T120TiO2 versions but the ones that I purchased had a rubber suspension whereas the ones in the Wilson were foam, as I recall. Also the Wilson tweeter domes had a bronze color whereas the TiO2 were gray. Might have just been for cosmetics.
The Scan and Dynaudio woofers looked to be stock but it is hard to tell, obviously, without measuring them.

I never completed this project due to a lack of time and all the negative talk about them, not that I believed them. Wilson used some clever tricks to get impressive dynamics out of the Watt/Puppy. My plan was to revoice them if I found any major issues regarding their performance.

I heard years later that Spica TC-50s might have been the basis for the WATTs and you can see the similarity in the enclosure if you taper in the sides toward the top. The Spica's also use a notch filter, and the earlier WATTs were noted for the difficult input impedance as a result of the notch filter being used. I don't ever recall any claim for linear phase regarding the WATTs so I'm not sure if this is just complete speculation. Anyone?

Pete B.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wilson Watt Puppy Clone Help jaysant1 Multi-Way 4 9th August 2008 09:10 AM
Where to get replacement woofer for Wilson Watt Puppy 5.1 ARCANE Multi-Way 7 13th June 2008 09:56 PM
Wilson Audio Puppy Clone InfinityPWS Multi-Way 1 26th January 2006 07:37 AM
krell KAS and watt puppy clone minh_827 Multi-Way 0 5th May 2005 05:43 PM
watt puppy clone minh_827 Multi-Way 0 26th April 2005 07:37 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:46 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2