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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 14th August 2008, 06:48 AM   #21
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Excellent, that does clear up the context.

If you are interested in at least looking, here are the part numbers for the Pioneer speakers -

5.25" 2-way = 250-670
6.50" 2-way = 250=675
8.00" 3-way = 250-680

MTX Speakers -

5.25" 2-way = 302-019
6.5" MTM 2-way = 302-017

Also, check out MTX -

302-010
302-002
302-006

Are these going to be audio perfection, no.

Are they going to be good speakers for the money, most likely yes.

And they are certainly going to be better than the typical 'egg/pod' speakers that come with even mid-priced AV speaker systems.

The smaller Pioneer have response down to 50hz and the 8" has response down to 40hz. Both very good for a small speaker.

The small MTX has response down to 48hz, and the MTX MTM has response down to 42hz. Again, not bad for speakers in this class.

The other three MTX I mentioned don't have great low end, but they are meant to be satellite speakers.

I'm not trying to talk you into or out of building your own speakers. I'm not trying to talk you into or out of buying any of these factory made speakers.

What I'm trying to do is help you get some speakers, from any source, that you will be satisfied with for the money, and that will be within your budget.

And 'for the money' is the watch word here. I think you'll do well for the money with any of these options.

ONE ADDITIONAL POINT:

Did you know that the 8" Dayton woofer you picked was a Dual Voice Coil woofer (DVC - Dual Voice Coil) and was that intentional?

If you don't need DVC, then consider the Dayton Classic 8" -

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-310

For what it's worth.

steve/bluewizard
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Old 14th August 2008, 01:14 PM   #22
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Jesus. Being wrong is also non productive.

The Dayton RS100S-8 is in reality given Sd a 3" driver.
Vas of 0.7 cuft / 20L ? ludicrous for a 3" driver with an Fs of 85hz.

PE state the Vas to be 0.07 cuft = 2L, Zaph measured 1.4L.

3" drivers do not do 36Hz and the bass alignment you showed is horrible.
It does show that you used 0.07 cuft for Vas though, not 0.7 ....

Like I said a 2L Vas driver in a 11L box is just so wrong .....

/sreten.
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Old 14th August 2008, 01:26 PM   #23
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Newbie looking for idea/suggestions for a unque HT speaker


Hi,

the above is worth a perusal, sealed suited to use with a sub.

/sreten.
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Old 14th August 2008, 04:26 PM   #24
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ACK!!! Sreten, with apologies, when you are right, you are right, and in this case you are definitely right.

I can't believe I mixed that up, and yes, 0.7 Cu.Ft. did seem high for a tiny speaker. And certainly 0.07 cu.ft. or 2 lites makes more sense.

As to being a 4" or a 3", both Dayton and Parts Express classify it as a 4" but the outside edge to edge measurement is 3-7/8", so what it actually is, is debatable.

So, my sincerest apologies for ever doubting you. It was certainly I who was not reading along closely.


As to thatotherguy's question about BSC (Baffle Step Correction), here is a link to 'Elliot Sound Products' explanation of it.

Baffle Step Compensation -
http://sound.westhost.com/bafflestep.htm

With more information available at True Audio -
http://trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm


Elliot Sound is a source of a lot of good introductory information for anyone who is thinking of building speakers. Tons of information on every aspect.

Again, with apologies to Sreten.

Steve/bluewizard
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Old 14th August 2008, 05:07 PM   #25
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Quote:
Zaph
Dayton RS100S-8
Cost: $26
Usability:4.5/5
Build Quality:5/5
Consistency:not rated
Value: 4.5/5
Comments: This is a great performing 3" driver. The frame is a very nice casting with better than average ventilation. Very smooth, wideband response. Copper appears to be used in the right place in this motor, for very low distortion and no inductive rise. Could be used full range with a breakup notch and a shelving BSC filter, but would be even better paired with a cheap neo tweeter.
The cost is not that low for a 3" driver, but considering the performance, value is still very high.
Tested March 2008.
Sd is similar to TB and Aura 3"ers. Basically it has a big flange.

Click the image to open in full size.

Fighting a losing battle trying to go under 100Hz.
After applying BSC fairly crippling sensitivity too.

/sreten.
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Old 15th August 2008, 08:39 PM   #26
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so will the pioneer 5 1/4 have better sound than my present system...paper mid, paper sub, most likely mylar ~1" dome tweeter with terrible xovers that don't even make sense. (with the exeption of a 2nd order 4khz high pass for the tweeter.) will the pioneer system have more clarity than standard speakers?

i guess right now im too cheap to invest in a diy project. plus im running out of summer. but i will remember this for the future...
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Old 15th August 2008, 10:49 PM   #27
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Just to complicate things a bunch Go here:

http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/index.html

The Peerless npt-11-047-1 (or npt-11-084-2 knockoff) is better than any of the PE woofers for $15 ($12). Use two of these 8" woofers with a 100W into 4ohm Foster plate amplifier for $50. The Foster plate amp isn't posted on the site yet.

For the satellites, use the Peerless npt-11-080-1 woofers for $10 each and the npt-11-096-2 tweeters for $6 each. The woofers have one large aluminum shorting ring in them. They are low distortion.
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Old 16th August 2008, 07:14 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by thatotherguy
so will the pioneer 5 1/4 have better sound than my present system...paper mid, paper sub, most likely mylar ~1" dome tweeter with terrible xovers that don't even make sense. (with the exeption of a 2nd order 4khz high pass for the tweeter.) will the pioneer system have more clarity than standard speakers?

i guess right now im too cheap to invest in a diy project. plus im running out of summer. but i will remember this for the future...

Keep in mind that the 5.25" Pioneer speakers are $30 A PAIR, or $15 EACH. FOR THE MONEY, I'm sure the Pioneers would sound fine. But if the overal size isn't a problem, the 6.5" Pioneers which are $50/pair or the MTX 5.25" which are $60/pair are probably better.

For this money, you're not going to get great speakers, but given your low budget, I think they will be good speaker for the money.

All these speaker have high approval ratings from customers at Parts Express.

I quick check of the Internet indicates that the Pioneer 6.25" have a retail close to $78/pair. The Pioneer 5.25" retail for about $50/pair.

I have a pair of Sony 4" speakers that retail for about $50 to $60 per pair that I picked up in a pawn shop for $20. They sound reasonably good on my computer, but fell a bit short trying to use them on my main HiFi/TV.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...akers/H+Series

The MTX 5.25" retails for around $100/pair.

http://www.mtxhome.com/p/cabs/monitor5i.aspx

I suspect for your situation either of these speaker would be adequate.

On your budget, DIY speakers may be out of the question for practice reasons. DIY doesn't alway give you cheaper speaker purely from a price point, but they do usually give you better speaker for the money, if done right.

If you could spend $50 to $60 each for DIY speakers there would probably be a lot of options open to you, but in the $20 to $30 apiece range, the options are slim.

You can seek out and read about the Pioneer and MTX as well as we can, and in the end, you'll have to decide if that right for you.

You could always try trawling EBay to see if you can pick up some deals there.

Also, it's hard to judge your current system without knowing what it is.

Steve/bluewizard.
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Old 18th August 2008, 03:50 PM   #29
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Hidley
Just to complicate things a bunch Go here:

http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/index.html

The Peerless npt-11-047-1 (or npt-11-084-2 knockoff) is better than any of the PE woofers for $15 ($12). Use two of these 8" woofers with a 100W into 4ohm Foster plate amplifier for $50. The Foster plate amp isn't posted on the site yet.

For the satellites, use the Peerless npt-11-080-1 woofers for $10 each and the npt-11-096-2 tweeters for $6 each. The woofers have one large aluminum shorting ring in them. They are low distortion.

Hi,

All good suggestions in terms of VFM. The c/o components for the
sattelites could end up more than the drivers, but if not designed :
http://www.acoustic-reality.com/ar-sxo.htm
Seems as good as any for a half-baked design.

The woofers will work in a sealed box ~ 5L, and vented ~ 10L / ~ 40Hz.

11L tuned to 35Hz could work well on its own, slim floorstander.

/sreten.

edit : TBH unless the Foster plate amplifier has bass boost the 8"
subs really only add volume capability rather than bass extension.
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Old 18th August 2008, 06:32 PM   #30
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ok, now im really confused...lol

anyways, once again im waffling back to the diy option. i have no idea what to do about the xover... the link you posted sreten...??? its just a crossover design? how do i know which values to put in?...maybe im just stupid...

do the peerless sound good? wheres the data sheet for the npt 11-80-1? and hows the power handling on the drivers suggested? im to dumb to know what all that stuff means .

btw this was why i picked the dayton dvc, it can reach 30hz flat.

before that post about the peerless, i had another idea...
how easy would it be to add a tweeter to the dayton 3-4" suggested earlier? would a cheapo second order, with maybe a notch filter for the tweeter work? just an idea... i had considered trying that woofer without a tweeter, and then if it needs one, add a tweeter and xover.
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