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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 11th August 2008, 02:29 PM   #11
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Yeah, that is the drawing I was referring to.
Easy to put the big parts together. But it's the whole port area and the smaller parts that are too confusing to figure out, based on that drawing.

A cut list would definately be helpful. Then it's just "connect the dots" from there.

Btw, some of the "approved drivers" for this model enclosure are going for big $ on ebay.
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Old 11th August 2008, 02:31 PM   #12
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.........................



Quote:
AVS Forum has suffered a major failure in the database and backup storage. As such, we have no choice but to recover from August 2nd.
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Old 11th August 2008, 02:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
Yeah, that is the drawing I was referring to.
Easy to put the big parts together. But it's the whole port area and the smaller parts that are too confusing to figure out, based on that drawing.

A cut list would definately be helpful. Then it's just "connect the dots" from there.

Btw, some of the "approved drivers" for this model enclosure are going for big $ on ebay.
yes . .. those classic speakers do go for serious $ sometimes . . . the important thing to remember is most any high-Q driver will work in these. . . the Altec 'guitar' speakers I use go for about 100 - 200 bucks / pair on ebay, although I traded a Heathkit AA32 tube amp for mine . .. which I got for free

think old console woofers (magnaovx / jensen) for bargain drivers, or if you're thinking new, any of these would stomp:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=626

the nice thing about using proaudio / guitar speakers, is most are High Q designed for IB / open back implementations, and they are designed to be abused . .
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Old 12th August 2008, 02:00 AM   #14
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I looked at that link. Turns out the link looks just like a different one that had a poor drawing. Your link brought up a decent looking drawing! Thanks!

I'm still waiting for my registration to be approved at the Karlson forum.

First they wanted an eight character password, which 99% of forums do not require. Then they wanted to wait until the admin approves my registration, now there is another delay because of a "security problem".

And to top it all off, they emailed my password to me in an unencrypted form. So any security they were looking for was blown right out the windows. doh!

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Old 12th August 2008, 02:03 AM   #15
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The only thing holding me back right now on these Karlsons is trying to fit them with my current towers. If I could do that, then I would go forth and build some MCM's.

I have some Marantz MA500 monoblocks that would probably work well for powering the Karlson enclosures.
But I have no idea the best way to cross them over at 150-250hz while sending the rest to my towers.

I didn't see any active crossovers out there, other than for car audio. Which I could incorporate into this scenario using a DC/AC converter.

But that almost sounds like a waste of money. Surely there are better options out there that will not only let me have a 2/way crossover but also be able to adjust the volume of the Karsons to match with my towers?
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Old 15th August 2008, 09:27 PM   #16
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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I've not had any punch yet with fullrange speakers - a fake Druid with the first Eminence B102 had some power handling so could be pushed harder than an 8" with less excursion. P-audio 15" coaxial should be nice in Karlson K15. Theres a $35 Eminence/Fender woofer on Ebay which should work ok. A slotted tube HF waveguide sounds nice with K15 and other couplers. It would be made with a half ellipse slot ~5.3" long and a 1/8" gap so the ellipse pattern would be for 10.6" major axis and (pi* pipe outside diameter)-0.125" minor axis . Altec 604 in K15 sounded better than any fullrange I've heard yet but my FR experience is limited - I don't hold much hope for FR being able to play the transient levels I like with certain material.
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Old 16th August 2008, 05:31 PM   #17
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Freddi,

I have yet been able to post on your Karlson forum. It's been over a week and nobody is letting me in.

If I were to build a Karlson (not sure anymore), I would build it not as a full-range, but only to be a midbass speaker.

Right now, I'm considering just building a pair of ported midbass enclosures using Eminence Kappa LF 15" bass speakers.
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Old 17th August 2008, 04:31 AM   #18
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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I don't control the K-forum - its Gregg Baker's greggbaker-at-gainclone.com
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Old 17th August 2008, 08:29 AM   #19
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hmm..........

midbass and punch.

You mean sounds punchy ?
Or a bass drum that hits you viscerally like a real drum ?

punchy sound I got from the pioneer b20 crossed to a piezo time aligned at 5khz.
pleasing 2nd order harmonics and time alignment went a long way.

Now midbass, that 200-80hz region that so many theaters lack (especially home theaters), 1 15" a side worked much better than an 8" 3 way, then 2 x 15" a side worked well at high volumes (1 used with bsc inductor) (crossed to a ev hp640) time aligned 24db/octave/lr crossover. These were eminence gamma 15" costing maybe $80 each. But don't let their 3mm xmax fool you. and I ran subs below them. I think their qtc .707 was near 3ft3 with a f3 of 75hz.

4 x 15" gave impact, like an explosion hitting you. My 4 x 18's sub would shake you, but these did drum impact. Think old stone temple pilots drum stuff. Only thing I had that did better was a w-bin but you had to be > 10' away and there wasn't much below 100hz.

Norman
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Old 17th August 2008, 03:53 PM   #20
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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B20 to my ear has quite a bit of distortion but a kinda pretty Hf shimmer from its wizzer lobing. look at this ~ on-axis graph taken in the middle of a room with B20 versus the old Eminence B102, each in a fake Druid pipe (~1.3 cubic foot airspace, floor firing vent) - midrange output as expected was less than B102 but I was surprised to see less LF with B20 - they can be fun on a budget. The fake Druid with apt80 copy or other tweeters was fun on the cheap and B102 could take brief 200W peaks which would knock a B20 out of the gap and into chaos. For drums and bass a 15" Karlson would stomp a 10" driver Druid. A 12" Karlson with something like PYM1298 could be a noise maker to ~75Hz. K12 with Martin Sound's coax is ok - no low bass, clearer sound than my limited pile of "fullrange"

I had B20 in an old EV Interface cabinet with passive radiator and that distorted too - tweeter was 3X KSN1016 on top - looks like B20 could live w/o BSC as this is the middle of a room

B20 vs B103 - same drive in fake Druid pipe
Click the image to open in full size.

Outdoors K15 versus a reflex with similar Fb and volume to the Karlson's rear chamber- driver = Beta15CX two tone distortion 32Hz/160Hz mixed 1:1 - note the reduction in sideband activity with the 15" Karlson
Click the image to open in full size.

besides whatever can happen in a Karlson for excursion vs output theres a psychoacoustic effect of its "reverb" - the upper half of the slot and the starting gap seem to be keys to adjusting the effect - it will not show with real time analyzers.
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