I'm posting this here because I assume speaker builders are more likely to have PC based test gear than those in other areas of the community but my question is for anybody who knows about PCs with regard to audio and testing.
The goal to put together a dedicated test notebook PC and I am wondering if anybody has strong/clear recommendations for laptops that would be particularly well suited to the task. My thoughts are to use CleverScope and Clio Lite (which requires installation of their proprietary sound card.) I'm thinking a fast machine that is electronically low noise and has a good display are three things to look for but when I do searches for quiet computers, of course the only thing they're thinking about is hard drive and fan noise. Questions directed to staff at the local computer stores as expected draw completely useless answers. (They're only there to make tuition money by selling to a much more general interest group.) Any hints, tips or straight out advice would be really appreciated. Specific Brand names and models a bonus!!
Thanks very much !
The goal to put together a dedicated test notebook PC and I am wondering if anybody has strong/clear recommendations for laptops that would be particularly well suited to the task. My thoughts are to use CleverScope and Clio Lite (which requires installation of their proprietary sound card.) I'm thinking a fast machine that is electronically low noise and has a good display are three things to look for but when I do searches for quiet computers, of course the only thing they're thinking about is hard drive and fan noise. Questions directed to staff at the local computer stores as expected draw completely useless answers. (They're only there to make tuition money by selling to a much more general interest group.) Any hints, tips or straight out advice would be really appreciated. Specific Brand names and models a bonus!!
Thanks very much !
How about a Panasonic Toughbook -
No fans, the HD is mounted in gel and legacy connections (on the one I use, anyway). 2 issues though....
You'd probably need 4 grand to buy one and CPU speed is usually a generation behind (for some neither is an issue). That being said, you'd have the best laptop on planet earth for almost any purpose IMHO.
The hardware seems to be ultrastable and truly proven/tested - the freakin thing DOES NOT crash.
No fans, the HD is mounted in gel and legacy connections (on the one I use, anyway). 2 issues though....
You'd probably need 4 grand to buy one and CPU speed is usually a generation behind (for some neither is an issue). That being said, you'd have the best laptop on planet earth for almost any purpose IMHO.
The hardware seems to be ultrastable and truly proven/tested - the freakin thing DOES NOT crash.
I may be misunderstanding the the Audiomatica site, but it looks to me like if you want to use clio lite, then you are going to need a desktop PC as clio lite uses a PCI card.
On the other hand, if you want to use a notebook, it looks like you need to use Clio Standard which has an external soundcard/interface which requires firewire and costs a lot more money.
On the other hand there are various measurement programs that work fine with a laptop and an external soundcard. Programs such as SoundEasy, Speaker Workshop, ARTA etc. and cost far less than Clio lite even when you factor in a mic and external soundcard.
Regards,
Dennis
On the other hand, if you want to use a notebook, it looks like you need to use Clio Standard which has an external soundcard/interface which requires firewire and costs a lot more money.
On the other hand there are various measurement programs that work fine with a laptop and an external soundcard. Programs such as SoundEasy, Speaker Workshop, ARTA etc. and cost far less than Clio lite even when you factor in a mic and external soundcard.
Regards,
Dennis
mpmarino, thanks! They do look pretty amazing. I couldn't figure out for sure if they'll take a PCI card and if so which models do it. Does yours? I'll try calling somebody at Panasonic and see if they know. I tried local computer stores again today. They all said not possible then when I mentioned the ToughBook they all gave "Oh, that's possible" responses. In other words, nobody knows. It's a little frustrating when the people who are supposed to make it their business neither know nor care that they don't know.
djarchow, I think you're right. and I don't want to spring for the pricer Clio. I'll look at the other programs you mentioned , Thanks .
Bionic. . . I saw the Lenovos as I was searching around, They're beautiful machines but I didn't see any that take a full size PCI Card, does yours?
Thanks guys !
Hi Hearinspace,
looks like the Panasonic doesn't have a PCI slot, at least this model: http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...pId=12871&surfModel=Toughbook-19&displayTab=F
Cliowin 7 allows the use of the software with an external sound card, only 2 types, but with some limitations: http://www.mclink.it/com/audiomatica/sounddevices.htm
I don't know if Cliowin 8 allows it too, you have to ask Audiomatica.
Anyway, in this way you have to buy a Transit card and don't use the Clio hardware.
looks like the Panasonic doesn't have a PCI slot, at least this model: http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...pId=12871&surfModel=Toughbook-19&displayTab=F
Cliowin 7 allows the use of the software with an external sound card, only 2 types, but with some limitations: http://www.mclink.it/com/audiomatica/sounddevices.htm
I don't know if Cliowin 8 allows it too, you have to ask Audiomatica.
Anyway, in this way you have to buy a Transit card and don't use the Clio hardware.
I can't see any point in going for the Clio software without the whole set-up. Would it really be so much better than the other programs out there? Probably better just to get a Firewire version ($$$!!!!) or go with something completely different at lower cost.
Thanks mpmarino I'll figure something out!
Hearinspace said:
That's exactly what I was pointing out!
Clio is a software+hardware package, that means that in 1 minute you are ready to measure. Using a software like Arta, SW, Soundeasy, etc., means that you will have to spend some time for calibrations, setups, besides buy a sound card that works well with the choose software.
Once those softwares are calibrated they don't need to be recalibrated each time. I believe Clio needs to run an initial calibration as well.
There are no laptops that run PCI, if you are dead set on running Clio lite and want a small portable computer for it, you will not be able to use a laptop. What you can do instead is run a small form factor computer which has pci slots. Another option is to use a PCI to USB device, which area really not intended for this purpose, and may not work.
My number one recommendation is DO NOT USE VISTA. I'm not bashing on Vista here, but there are so many glitches in the way it handles sound and media that I am having problems with the calibration of all my measurement software. Windows Vista has been trying to cause early hear loss in me since the start, I swear. The manufacturer of my ATB gave me a technical explanation for why these problems are happening, and says that at the moment, they have no fix.
There are no laptops that run PCI, if you are dead set on running Clio lite and want a small portable computer for it, you will not be able to use a laptop. What you can do instead is run a small form factor computer which has pci slots. Another option is to use a PCI to USB device, which area really not intended for this purpose, and may not work.
My number one recommendation is DO NOT USE VISTA. I'm not bashing on Vista here, but there are so many glitches in the way it handles sound and media that I am having problems with the calibration of all my measurement software. Windows Vista has been trying to cause early hear loss in me since the start, I swear. The manufacturer of my ATB gave me a technical explanation for why these problems are happening, and says that at the moment, they have no fix.
Thanks pjpoes !
Intuition was telling me to steer clear of Vista and your advice caps it!
Also, I looked around the local stores for PCI to USB and also to Firewire, but everybody had adapters going the other way. Not what I needed. I also found a company called Magma in CA that makes cool looking external slot expansion devices that can be used to plug into PCI , PCIexpress, ExpressCard , and CardBus but they're very expensive. - over $1K.
..... and yes, I also looked at small form factor PCs. I was really surprised at what I can get custom built new in a store for $250. Really good stuff actually, but the whole laptop thing for me is that I'd like to have the unit be used by local group members who want to test their gear, and lugging around the PC, Monitor and all the stuff in a cardboard box will probably be amusing the first two times- or maybe until the monitor gets broken.
One other thing I'm thinking about is a comment I saw of Lynn Olson's talking about the speed you need to do proper testing for tweeters. This is from the hip but I think he said 196 was needed to do it right. So that would rule out the Lite version right there. . . . .
I'm thinking it over now. If you don't mind me asking ,can you say anything about what sort of test gear you are using on yours?
Sorry your Vista was a bust but thanks again for your help !!
Intuition was telling me to steer clear of Vista and your advice caps it!
Also, I looked around the local stores for PCI to USB and also to Firewire, but everybody had adapters going the other way. Not what I needed. I also found a company called Magma in CA that makes cool looking external slot expansion devices that can be used to plug into PCI , PCIexpress, ExpressCard , and CardBus but they're very expensive. - over $1K.
..... and yes, I also looked at small form factor PCs. I was really surprised at what I can get custom built new in a store for $250. Really good stuff actually, but the whole laptop thing for me is that I'd like to have the unit be used by local group members who want to test their gear, and lugging around the PC, Monitor and all the stuff in a cardboard box will probably be amusing the first two times- or maybe until the monitor gets broken.
One other thing I'm thinking about is a comment I saw of Lynn Olson's talking about the speed you need to do proper testing for tweeters. This is from the hip but I think he said 196 was needed to do it right. So that would rule out the Lite version right there. . . . .
I'm thinking it over now. If you don't mind me asking ,can you say anything about what sort of test gear you are using on yours?
Sorry your Vista was a bust but thanks again for your help !!
I didn't see Lynn's comments about needing a 196khz soundcard to measure tweeters. But a 96khz card will get you out to 48 Khz which is IMO more than enough for speaker design.
I use a desktop PC for measurements and design with SoundEasy as my main design and measurement tool. I use a M-Audio 10 channel out soundcard which besides working fine for measurements, also works with Soundeasy's XO emulator which allows me to design my XO and then listen to it through the soundcards multi channel out and a multi-channel receiver.
Soundeasy can be used with a laptop and external soundcard. However to use the XO emulator, there are some specific cards reccomended.
If you are looking to go cheap, Speaker Workshop does measurements and design and is free.
With any of the software solutions, you will still need to buy a mic and preamp. But you are getting the measurement and design tools as part of the package whereas with Clio, you would still need to buy design software.
Good luck,
Regards,
Dennis
I use a desktop PC for measurements and design with SoundEasy as my main design and measurement tool. I use a M-Audio 10 channel out soundcard which besides working fine for measurements, also works with Soundeasy's XO emulator which allows me to design my XO and then listen to it through the soundcards multi channel out and a multi-channel receiver.
Soundeasy can be used with a laptop and external soundcard. However to use the XO emulator, there are some specific cards reccomended.
If you are looking to go cheap, Speaker Workshop does measurements and design and is free.
With any of the software solutions, you will still need to buy a mic and preamp. But you are getting the measurement and design tools as part of the package whereas with Clio, you would still need to buy design software.
Good luck,
Regards,
Dennis
I use Clio 7 and it's a good system but in a lap top?? I have it running in XP and it works all the time every time with excellent repeatability. Clio 8 will run in Vista but I would go with XP. All the Clio set-ups beside the Fire-wire limit your upper frequency limit to 22K. You really would have to go with Clio 8 and the Fire-wire set-up. Unfortunately it's expensive. I started with Lite and upgraded through Automatica.
Rob
Rob
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