I'm curious. There is a fast growing amount of "soundbar" speakers being released by the low/mid-fi companies. I'm surprised given all the esoteric speaker designs out there that none in the DIY speaker crowd has designed and/or built a soundbar of higher quality. I view a SoundBar as something of a horizontal line array. IMO, even if a soundbar only contained two (left+right) high quality channels, it could be compelling due to better space savings and looks/asthetics.
"The emergence of the soundbar audio genre can be traced to two trends: 1) consumers’ desire to buy slender, space-saving speaker systems to match their slender, space-saving flat-panel HDTVs; and 2) consumers’ hatred of running speaker wire around the room."
The interesting thing in this review The Power of One: Five Soundbar Speaker Systems is that the passive (non amplified) soundbar was preferred... "By far the best-sounding unit was the passive Polk soundbar."
"The emergence of the soundbar audio genre can be traced to two trends: 1) consumers’ desire to buy slender, space-saving speaker systems to match their slender, space-saving flat-panel HDTVs; and 2) consumers’ hatred of running speaker wire around the room."
The interesting thing in this review The Power of One: Five Soundbar Speaker Systems is that the passive (non amplified) soundbar was preferred... "By far the best-sounding unit was the passive Polk soundbar."
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I don't like the effects junk either. But I don't see any reason why one couldn't use this format for just two left-right channels of "normal" audio to replace the pathetic speakers in most flat panel TV's. Even two long, thin MLTL's connected together to form a single soundbar cabinet, using even one pair of good single 4" drivers like Fostex or Jordan would probably sound better than most of the crud out there. And there are lots of other good 2" to 4" wide-range drivers out there from companies like Tang Band.
Little speakers don't make bass. lots of little speakers will make for high frequency comb filtering and increased directivity horizontally - which means it won't sound good off axis. Otherwise, it looks neat to most people and go ahead and give it a try if you like the look.
Maybe you could do a dual bessel array, or there are ways to make a single array work in stereo with active delay....
A couple SEAS coaxes are what I would use if I wanted replacement TV speakers - or used as in-walls if I just can't have a regular box. But if replacing TV speakers, why not just go cheap home theater?
Maybe you could do a dual bessel array, or there are ways to make a single array work in stereo with active delay....
A couple SEAS coaxes are what I would use if I wanted replacement TV speakers - or used as in-walls if I just can't have a regular box. But if replacing TV speakers, why not just go cheap home theater?
bass is not an issue, that's what subs are for. I'm aware of comb filtering, but this doesn't seem to have stopped a large amount of line array speakers from being built and having good reviews - even when including an array of tweeters. Anyway, I can think of at least one way to avoid this is to use multiple drivers which do not have significant output above 10K and using 1 high dispersion high sensitivity tweeter (like a ribbon) per channel.
Maybe one day I'll experiment with building something like this.
Maybe one day I'll experiment with building something like this.
To replace the junk TV speakers, I bought the Logitech Z2300 2.1 arrangement. For $160, they are fabulous and in movies like Pirates of the Caribbean, handled the guns and cannons well whilst giving a very good stereo image from speaker to speaker. (after I spent a bit of time with placement)
While I'm here, does anybody have an opinion on what they might be like with decent speaker wire and interconnects ?
While I'm here, does anybody have an opinion on what they might be like with decent speaker wire and interconnects ?
Graeme Hancock said:
Graeme, I'm talking about something that would approach "hi-end" speaker sound - ie, besting what the existing SoundBar speakers provide. What you're talking about is going the other direction. I understand you are happy with those Logitech speakers for their price, but I know personally I would not. And I know most others here would not be happy, for audio and/or video use, with a speaker system that has "40 watts per channel at 10% THD" which is supposedly what those have according to their printed specs. I wouldn't doubt they could be an adequate choice for computer use.
Besides, I'm talking about a DIY project, not buying something. Hence my posting here on DIYAudio.
Graeme Hancock said:
Yes, I have an opinion - interconnect components will make no difference in the sound, regardless of the speakers - this is an age-old myth and if you want better sound buy or build better speakers.
As for sound bars, it would be the quality of the drivers used rather than the electronic technology that would be the criterion for me. These are things designed for simplicity and convenience for the consumer, while my priority is high fidelity.
Get on the Polk site and look for their white paper on SDA. Should be linked somewhere on the pages for their existing surround bars. They give the exact, and very simple, technique for creating the wider than physical spacing sound field. I have no idea what all is in their 40+ component passive crossover that gives them SDA Surround, but getting a decently wide sound field out of a single bar is not only possible, but easy. I've done it myself with cheap car speakers on open baffles just to hear the effects for myself, and they are not subtle and also seemed to stiffen up the bass response just a touch. Anybody with 4 woofers and a pair of tweeters could give this a try.
Kensai
Kensai
What is a sound bar really but a bunch of small bookshelf speakers stacked end-to-end.
A Center in the center. (genius!)
Just out board of the Center are the equivalent of the front, or perhaps Sub-ish speakers.
Assuming no Sound Bar Sub, just out board of the fronts, are the 'rears' or more accurately the surround speakers.
I think you could literally do it, with five bookshelf speakers if the speakers were configured as lefts and rights.
Or, is there something I am missing?
In a discussion in another audio groups, a guy wanted 5.1 surround sound but he didn't want to run wires all over the house. Among other things we suggested, a sound bar. Something he felt was out of his budget range.
So, I suggested he get a low cost (meaning about $400) compact 5.1 speaker system and mount the fronts and center down low near the TV, the mount the surround up high and wide on the same wall. Seem like that would work as good as a sound bar, maybe even better, and it was cheap.
Next, most of the speaker I design, or more accurately conceive, usually stay in the realm of dreams and rarely make it into reality. Every time I conceive of a 'sound bar', by the time I'm done it has evolved into more of a sound 'boat'; meaning much bigger and more complex that a typical sound bar would be.
For what (little) it's worth.
steve/bluewizard
A Center in the center. (genius!)
Just out board of the Center are the equivalent of the front, or perhaps Sub-ish speakers.
Assuming no Sound Bar Sub, just out board of the fronts, are the 'rears' or more accurately the surround speakers.
I think you could literally do it, with five bookshelf speakers if the speakers were configured as lefts and rights.
Or, is there something I am missing?
In a discussion in another audio groups, a guy wanted 5.1 surround sound but he didn't want to run wires all over the house. Among other things we suggested, a sound bar. Something he felt was out of his budget range.
So, I suggested he get a low cost (meaning about $400) compact 5.1 speaker system and mount the fronts and center down low near the TV, the mount the surround up high and wide on the same wall. Seem like that would work as good as a sound bar, maybe even better, and it was cheap.
Next, most of the speaker I design, or more accurately conceive, usually stay in the realm of dreams and rarely make it into reality. Every time I conceive of a 'sound bar', by the time I'm done it has evolved into more of a sound 'boat'; meaning much bigger and more complex that a typical sound bar would be.
For what (little) it's worth.
steve/bluewizard
BlueWizard said:
The speakers such as the Polk and Definitive actually have a lot going on in them in the XO and drivers to simulate surround sound from the single cabinet, which is more complicated than just sticking 5 sets of speakers in one cabinet.
The polk does it using a passive XO and additonal drivers to cancel the crosstalk between the channels, i.e. the old stereo SDA approach from the 80's as Kensai mentioned. The trick in a soundbar is to do this same thing for 5 channels so that with one cabinet, it sounds like a normal surround system.
As I mentioned I have heard the Definitive version and while not as good as good as a real surroound system, when you were sitting in the sweet spot, the soundbar did a pretty good job of simulating surround sound. Would I ever trade my real 5.1 system for one of these? No of course not, but the technology is interesting.
Regards,
Dennis
It doesn't make sense to me to do anything but a LCR sound bar with full range or coaxial drivers. Running wires under the baseboards is about a simple a project as you can get. So it doesn't make sense to me to try and put the surrounds in the sound bar. On reason we DIY is so that we get a better balance of physics and design for a more cost effective solution. A couple of little mini monitor speakers on stands for surrounds in the back of the room with standard lamp cord gage speaker wire run under the baseboards is about as easy and cheap as you can get. And takes up very little space. For those who cannot bear even the sight of the smallest speakers in the room I say let them listen to the TV's low quality sound which for them is the simple solution.
The sound bars I have heard do not really sound a whole lot better than the TV speakers. Just a tad bit better but not really by much. A sound bar solution described above would best the better of the sound bars at a significantly lower cost.
The sound bars I have heard do not really sound a whole lot better than the TV speakers. Just a tad bit better but not really by much. A sound bar solution described above would best the better of the sound bars at a significantly lower cost.
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