markus76 said:
Markus
I must have gone to the wrong post - I scanned for "?" and the only two that I saw I answered.
I don't use laquer as its too smelly for home use. I actually make my own paint, but thats another story altogether Graingers sells very good paint in a wide variety and they are everywhere. Look for Acrylic Enamel (rust-o-leum) and use an Epoxy primer. They have water based and regular. I use water based, but its not as good, just a lot easier to use. I buy bulk acrylic from an outlet in Madison Wis. and mix my own colors to the clear. I make all my own hobby paint as this stuff is ridiculously expensive - about $1 / ml.
Ai used several different kinds of paint the rough texture came from Australia, and the red was automotive acylic laquer from Sikkens. That stuff could kill you! But it makes a great finish.
As to rounding the bottom, its an option. I used to do it, but it is a pain to paint and the cabinet tends to roll forward if bumped. Since this edge is far from the tweeter, the woofer is in between and it usually sits on a stand, I opt to leave it off.
There are textured paint spray cans that I have used and they come out pretty well. The texture would hide just about any flaw. I will be painting mine in a high gloss red and I will post that finish and you will see that the edges will look just fine. A little filler and some sanding and you can cure anything. I would never ship anything that can't be fixed with reasonable work. All the flaws that you showed can easily be fixed once the enclosure is assmbled. A sharp edge has to fit perfectly, but a rounded one is very forgiving. You will see this when you get it together.
gedlee said:
Earl,
I think we are on the same page but just want to be sure. I wasn't suggesting getting rid of the any of the front baffle roundovers.
My suggestion was to leave the roundover on all four edges of the front baffle, just eliminate the roundover that runs from the front to back on the top panel of the cabinet. This would make the top and bottom panels identical and simplify the assembly for the user. It would also allow the builder the option of veneering the main cabinet and only painting the baffle.
I am sure there would be some additional diffraction effects from having the 45 deg edge where the horizontal and vertical roundovers on the front baffle meet. While I haven't measured or caluclated the difference vs smoothing that corner out and rounding it off it certainly has to be less than no roundover at all.
Kind regards,
Dennis
I think that Marcus and everyone else is being incredibly polite.
This is an absolute discrace. I can't believe that Earl is defending this poor quality of production.
As our fine Prince Philip would say: It looks like it has been put together by a bunch of Indians (he meant cowboys).
How can you say that this kit is not designed for beginners? No seasoned builder would put up with this kind of rubbish, they would start again from scratch keeping the baffle because of the waveguide. You couldn't even be bothered to package it so that it would not be damaged in transit.
Shame on you.
From Post 15 "It's always refreshing when a mfg. stands by their product and acknowledge that "the customer is always right", a well known (if somewhat dubious) reality of the business world.
it's also nice to see a response that doesn't patronize and/or chastise the customer for their perspective, especially on a DIY board.
Caveat Emptor I guess."
Well stated
This is an absolute discrace. I can't believe that Earl is defending this poor quality of production.
As our fine Prince Philip would say: It looks like it has been put together by a bunch of Indians (he meant cowboys).
How can you say that this kit is not designed for beginners? No seasoned builder would put up with this kind of rubbish, they would start again from scratch keeping the baffle because of the waveguide. You couldn't even be bothered to package it so that it would not be damaged in transit.
Shame on you.
From Post 15 "It's always refreshing when a mfg. stands by their product and acknowledge that "the customer is always right", a well known (if somewhat dubious) reality of the business world.
it's also nice to see a response that doesn't patronize and/or chastise the customer for their perspective, especially on a DIY board.
Caveat Emptor I guess."
Well stated
Fosti said:
A lot of words, that may lead some people to the belief that this is so, but.....everyone can read about that topic in good books. Only so much: The probably best studio monitors in the world are active (and German): Look for the MEG RL901
or
K+H O500C
It's polite to honor someone for his scientific reputation, but gedlee is not the only one with a PhD here in the forum....some may be even a Dr.-Ing. (<-- that's German, too)
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, it is so. Crossing over a high level or low level signal is, at its essence essentially the same. They are filtering a signal , period. The only difference is really the "wattage" of that signal, and the load impedance presented to the crossover. If you read a good book on the subject and didn't understand that much, then i recomend you find a better good book.
I honor Dr. Geddes with the term Dr. because its a convention. I am in my third year of my PhD program and I know that unless they tell you otherwise, its considered best practice to call someone Dr. I also know that, at least for me, once I'm done spending the better part of 10 years in college, I too would like people to call me Dr rather than Mr.
As for the view of the greatest speakers, well I think that is a highly highly debated subject. Is greatest based on number of users, I think that would make the bose wave radio number one. Is it based on number of professional audio users, well that would put the Yamaha NS-10M's at number one last I checked. If its based on opinion, even professional opinion, then again, we have thousands of options that people feel are the best. West Lake Audio and JBL have made some of the finest professional studio monitors I have ever heard, neither of which use active crossovers or biamping in their design. Does that make them the best? Well I think its my opinion, nothing more. Maybe Dr. Geddes makes the best, I haven't heard them yet, but it does seem like some very sound science is behind his designs, so we shall see.
pjpoes said:
And please check the reviews on my web site www.gedlee.com. Those speakers are all passive and five of five said that they were the best that they have heard. I'm not saying that active is bad, only that it isn't necessary, especially in a lower cost design. It addes A LOT of cost.
djarchow said:
Its the sharp edge on the top two corners that you mention, very close to the waveguide, that concerns me. Rounding it over requires that the top edges be rounded also. I can certainly ship the enclosure without this rounding, but I would not recommend it. Again, I have not had a problem. A little sanding, problem solved.
Question on pricing
Here is a question that I'll throw out there.
I'd like nothing better than to have all the parts cut at some other shop. But that cost has to be carried by the price.
Would people be willing to pay an extra $100 per speaker to have the pieces cut numerically so they will fit better?
There will still be some issues with the roundover that will have to be sanded (I believe), but the parts will all be identical and there won't be any production variations from human setup.
What say ye - higher price or not?
Although I will want to get the opinions of some other builders as well.
Here is a question that I'll throw out there.
I'd like nothing better than to have all the parts cut at some other shop. But that cost has to be carried by the price.
Would people be willing to pay an extra $100 per speaker to have the pieces cut numerically so they will fit better?
There will still be some issues with the roundover that will have to be sanded (I believe), but the parts will all be identical and there won't be any production variations from human setup.
What say ye - higher price or not?
Although I will want to get the opinions of some other builders as well.
Price
I believe that would be an excellent option.
At this price point, and for what you're offering, I believe you should make every attempt to present the product with as much rigour, integrity, and accuracy as you have demonstrated in designing and inventing the product.
Word of mouth is the most potent form of advertising.
Just my opinion...
John L.
I believe that would be an excellent option.
At this price point, and for what you're offering, I believe you should make every attempt to present the product with as much rigour, integrity, and accuracy as you have demonstrated in designing and inventing the product.
Word of mouth is the most potent form of advertising.
Just my opinion...
John L.
Another point that I'd like to make. I build models for a hobby. Everyone that does this knows that there are some that fit very well and others that fit very poorly. This is just the way that it is and you learn to accept that with some kits you will be doing a lot of rework and with others not very much at all. And not coincidentaly it's the expensive ones that fit well and the inexpensive ones that don't. It all comes down to what you expect and what you are willing to pay for. My attempt was to make a kit that was the least expensive that I knew how. If people want to pay more for a better fit then I have no problem doing that.
In the end the result still looks the same either way.
In the end the result still looks the same either way.
Re: Price
John
The problem is that I don't think that it would be an option. Once I had the parts made outside it would make no sense to lessen the volume by doing some of them myself.
I appreciate what you are saying and here is my position. The product has as much value added that I can bring to it. I am a Physicist not a machinist or carpenter. My value added cannot be in that area where I am not an expert. My designs are the very best that they can be at the low cost that I sell them at. If the reported problems had any effect on the end result then things would be different, but they don't. All a better fit would do is make them easier to assemble. But since that is not my expertise, doing so requires someone elses expertise, and they seem to want to get paid for that. Hence, as I said above, it all comes down to the cost.
auplater said:
John
The problem is that I don't think that it would be an option. Once I had the parts made outside it would make no sense to lessen the volume by doing some of them myself.
I appreciate what you are saying and here is my position. The product has as much value added that I can bring to it. I am a Physicist not a machinist or carpenter. My value added cannot be in that area where I am not an expert. My designs are the very best that they can be at the low cost that I sell them at. If the reported problems had any effect on the end result then things would be different, but they don't. All a better fit would do is make them easier to assemble. But since that is not my expertise, doing so requires someone elses expertise, and they seem to want to get paid for that. Hence, as I said above, it all comes down to the cost.
Since the implacable manufacturer is obviously a rough cut above the rest, he thoroughly deserves all the dosh he can squeeze from this site. After all, we are very fortunate to be able to, not only buy the best loudspeakers on the planet, but also help with BETA testing and marketing. That self-satisfied glow that would come from knowing that we are at the audio forefront would be priceless... and if we have to pay for the privilege, then, so much the better, since a little bit of self sacrifice is good bonding for the cause.
Cilla
Cilla
Robh3606 said:Hello Earl
Just curious but do you "plans" or a drawing set for the rest of the cabinet if you just purchase the baffle, crossovers and drivers??. There may be some who may want to tackle the rest of the box themselves.
Rob
Yes, if you buy the baffle you get the full set of plans. Maybe not as ellaborate as you'd like them (not every panel has a full drawing, but there is a three view assembly with all the required dimension. Its certainly enough to do the job.
Re: Question on pricing
Yes - but only when no rounding by the customer is necessary and they're pre drilled too! Because people then can finish everything themselves by hand. Not everybody has a workshop at home. The easier the kit is to assemble, the more people will buy. It's that easy.
Best, Markus
Yes - but only when no rounding by the customer is necessary and they're pre drilled too! Because people then can finish everything themselves by hand. Not everybody has a workshop at home. The easier the kit is to assemble, the more people will buy. It's that easy.
Best, Markus
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