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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:11 AM   #861
terry j is offline terry j  Australia
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I really do doubt this would apply to most of the people here, but I have a little theory about the 'usefulness' of using a test track to evaluate a system.

I often imagine some poor audiophool with a highly coloured 'individualistic' system. And he has a test track (or many, but you get the idea) that he uses to test and evaluate systems.

And on track four, 1:33 there is a 'glorious, majestic guitar note' that just magnificently 'fills the room'. And it is THIS that allows him to evaluate the quality or otherwise of a system.

And no other system he ever listens to does it as well as his. Conclusion? His is the best system.

Trouble is, that note was NEVER meant to stand out in glorious magnificence, it just happens to coincide with a particular anomaly of his own system, it's a 'false positive' if you will.

Same deal with some birds who are so used to a 10 db hump at 65 hz that when they hear accurate fast bass they wrinkle their nose at it..'hmm, this system is crap, it has no bass'.

As I say, I doubt that many here would be afflicted by that, but I have seen it in action.

It is that type of reasoning that makes me start to believe that (well, for those birds at least) they just need to hear a variety of well recorded music (unknown to them) to evaluate a system...a good system is a good system and will present that way no matter what is played. And there is no false standard being applied either knowingly or unknowingly.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 01:11 PM   #862
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by loopguru
So Dr. Geddes, I gather then you're not a fan of the idea of taking a LR line out of the preamp, and into the subwoofer amp, then feeding a crossover filtered line out of the sub amp, into the main amp, which I've read, makes the amp and main speakers more efficient.

That school of thought goes, if your main speakers reach into the 40's, do that crossover business described above at 50Hz.

You're saying 'no', if I understand correctly. 'Give the mains a full range signal.' I've been going at this from the other way, looking for a cheap sub amp that has filtered line outs, like the NHTs. (used)
No, I would not recommend that. I would feed the mains with a full bandwidth. If my mains were ported, then I'd be real tempted to seal the ports - I always do this with speakers that I buy that are ported. Porting only makes sense if you are going for LF extension. With multiple overlapping subs you don;t need extension so seal the ports and the added spring stiffness will help to control the drivers excursion.

Terry - I could not agree with you more. What you say is so true and I have seen it over and over again before. A stereophool will fixate on something unnatural that his system does and use this as a criteria to evaluate all others by. Very bad idea!!

I have also noticed a correlary. That people can ignore blatant problems in a system evaluating only one personal criteria that they are interested in. They miss the big forest looking fo the accorns.

I was aghast at one "show" that there were people who would walk in to the room with no CDs of their own and actually make judgements about the sound quality. How is this possible? They were making judgements about my musical choice NOT the speakers. Unless there was some remote chance that my tastes and theirs were somehow aligned - which is almost never going to happen because I listen to "bizare" music - they will not arrive at any useful conclusion.

I don't take anyone serious who does not arrive with thier own wide selection of source material AND INSIST that I play theirs.

At that same show I was listening to some "popular" speakers and I wasn't sure what I thought about them, but the source was unfamiliar. Then when I put on a source that I did know very well my opinion solidified almost instantly.
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Old 24th October 2008, 03:17 PM   #863
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: sources

Quote:
Originally posted by Russell Dawkins


I have used a pair of Etymotic ER4Ss for 10 years now in my location recording work. Amazing, refined sound, and have proven neutral over the years.
I use a pair under a set of Howard Leight ear muffs (29dB attenuation) to set mics in an orchestra while they're playing. With the combined attenuation of around 64dB about all I hear is the mic!
The Shure earphones recommended by Linkwitz are also quite good IMO. The current model # is the SCL2. You can only get them from places that sell Pro Audio products. (The earphones in the current Shure consumer lineup are all tweaked to "sound better" and are not worth while.)
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Old 24th October 2008, 03:31 PM   #864
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Default Re: Re: Re: sources

Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

I was once agast to see the wave file of a Police song. It was clipping about 50% of the time - unique sound, I guess.
It was probably better that way.

I had the misfortune of once hearing a certain lead vocalist with a single monosyllabic name straight off the mixing console. He was singing flat by various amounts and seemed to have zero control over the volume of his voice.
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Old 24th October 2008, 04:18 PM   #865
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


I was aghast at one "show" that there were people who would walk in to the room with no CDs of their own and actually make judgements about the sound quality. How is this possible? They were making judgements about my musical choice NOT the speakers. Unless there was some remote chance that my tastes and theirs were somehow aligned - which is almost never going to happen because I listen to "bizare" music - they will not arrive at any useful conclusion.

I don't take anyone serious who does not arrive with thier own wide selection of source material AND INSIST that I play theirs.
I have seen this at more than one show. I've even had people get annoyed when I wanted to listen to a CD I brought.

I don't know whether or not dealers only bring music that is flattering to their products or not. It would seem likely.
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Old 27th March 2009, 06:00 PM   #866
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Default Clay?

Hi all,
What kind of clay did you use between the driver and the WG?
I know that there are natural clay and synthetic clay. The latter being PVC based and harden in boiling water or in the oven.
Or is it the stuff children play with...?
Does somebody know?
Regards,
Etienne
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Old 27th March 2009, 06:27 PM   #867
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Re: Clay?

Quote:
Originally posted by Etienne88
Hi all,
What kind of clay did you use between the driver and the WG?
I know that there are natural clay and synthetic clay. The latter being PVC based and harden in boiling water or in the oven.
Or is it the stuff children play with...?
Does somebody know?
Regards,
Etienne
I've used the PVC stuff and the childs clay, they both work, but the grey "modelers" clay is a little firmer and tends to work better, but is harder to install unles you kneed it well in your hands to soften it up. The childs clay tends to be a little too soft.
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Old 27th March 2009, 09:27 PM   #868
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Thank you!
/Etienne
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Old 2nd October 2009, 06:26 PM   #869
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Earl seems to have taken the drivers used off of his site - could someone please tell me the woofer that the Nathan uses (didn't find it after searching for 10+ min)?
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Old 2nd October 2009, 06:29 PM   #870
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http://www.gedlee.com/Nathan.htm
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