Building the Nathan 10 - Page 86 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st October 2008, 08:02 PM   #851
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Default Re: Re: sources

Quote:
Originally posted by Russell Dawkins

In a related way, I think, a modest loudspeaker can serve as a trustworthy reference if a sufficient variety of material has been auditioned through them. I am thinking here of Jack L. Renner of Telarc and his powered Philips speakers that he took on location with him.
An option that I like is good headphones, in particular Etymotic insert types (whatever you can afford). These tell you exactly whats on the recording and are very nuetral. That then becomes a reference.


Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc
Ideally if people providing comments can point out specifics in certain passages or tracks and also comment on instrument specifics, it would be more useful.
And what if there are flaws in these tracks or passages - how do you deal with that?

I was recently fooled by a reference song that I was listening to. I tried to find what in the speakers was causing a harshness that I didn't like. After months of searching I was loathe to discover that my "reference" song was actually clipping (who'd have thought that a well produced modern CD would have clipping on it). It was this clipping that I didn't like. When I removed it from the song the problem went away.

I was once agast to see the wave file of a Police song. It was clipping about 50% of the time - unique sound, I guess.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2008, 08:11 PM   #852
diyAudio Member
 
auplater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KyOhWVa tristate
Default Re: Re: sources

Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc

Well, I'd like to find the same thing to play if it's not what I already have. Normally I also see what other people comments are using the same source on different systems. Ideally if people providing comments can point out specifics in certain passages or tracks and also comment on instrument specifics, it would be more useful.
That's what I like to do as well, after reading a post, trying to understand the technical aspects, and then confirm the reviewers' observations and/or technical comments regarding specific qualities they attributed to the DUT, I then attempt to duplicate the same tests/listening with my setup (or theirs if I can track it down) and see if I can confirm or make improvements as needed.

It's pretty hard to assess what someone means when they say something is "awesome", "analytic", "accurate" etc. w/o a frame of reference with actual recordings. hence my earlier post which went unanswered..

When you've listened to and performed both live and recorded music for 4 decades, it's not too difficult to ascertain when music is distorted be it clipping, harmonic, intermodulation, etc. I find piano music to be especially revealing, both live and recorded.
I'm NEVER amazed at the poor quality of recorded CD's. It's as if some schlock-jock is at the helm of most recording consoles, going for the highest crest factor they can get away with...

John L.
__________________
"...His brain is squirming like a toad..." Jim Morrison
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2008, 08:22 PM   #853
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
auplater, how can one be more objective when already using words that are very well defined in psychoacoustics? That's my reference. It's up to you to fill those definitions with experience. I recommend "Critical Listening Skills for Audio Professionals" from Everest.

Best, Markus

P.S. I know you would like to but please don't comment on me using the word "awesome". You won't find it in any paper either
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2008, 08:39 PM   #854
diyAudio Member
 
auplater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KyOhWVa tristate
Default listening... or not

Quote:
Originally posted by markus76
auplater, how can one be more objective when already using words that are very well defined in psychoacoustics? That's my reference. It's up to you to fill those definitions with experience. I recommend "Critical Listening Skills for Audio Professionals" from Everest.

Best, Markus

P.S. I know you would like to but please don't comment on me using the word "awesome". You won't find it in any paper either
Since I'm not an audio professional, only a musician and stereo nut from the "old" school, I'll just take yoiur word for it...


Too late on the awesome thing, though...

John L.
__________________
"...His brain is squirming like a toad..." Jim Morrison
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2008, 08:51 PM   #855
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Default Re: Re: Re: sources

Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

An option that I like is good headphones, in particular Etymotic insert types (whatever you can afford). These tell you exactly whats on the recording and are very nuetral. That then becomes a reference.

I have used a pair of Etymotic ER4Ss for 10 years now in my location recording work. Amazing, refined sound, and have proven neutral over the years.
I use a pair under a set of Howard Leight ear muffs (29dB attenuation) to set mics in an orchestra while they're playing. With the combined attenuation of around 64dB about all I hear is the mic!
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2008, 08:57 PM   #856
diyAudio Member
 
gtforme00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee
What? You don't like marketing mumbo-jumbo? I just ignore all that stuff - its a 10" ported sub with 100 watts. What more do you need to know?

Hey, I'm not really recommending this exact speaker, only that there are a lot of reasonable subs out there. One does not have to pay $18,000 to get the bass right.

Of course you could give me the 18 grand and I'll do it right for you!!
A very reasonable 10" 100W subwoofer is on sale at MCM till Nov 15.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/50-7660

is $69.95 using coupon code WA809

Click the image to open in full size.

It is a heck of a deal.

-David
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2008, 09:07 PM   #857
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Unfortunately it doesn't have a variable LP filter - this is pretty important for blending the subs into the mains. I can guarantee that three identical subs with identical LP responses will have a problem where they overlap the mains.

And anyway those are about $5,940 too cheap!
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2008, 12:04 AM   #858
diyAudio Member
 
gtforme00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
It doesn't have variable phase control (just 0/180 switch), but it says on both the webpage and in the users manual that it has a variable low pass filter (though it doesn't say what slope and the webpage and manual do not agree on the frequency range).

Even still, I would (and do) use a DCX2496 for bass management due to the sheer flexibility that unit provides.

And yes, they probably are too cheap to be taken seriously. If I didn't already have 6x 12" subs that I haven't finished yet (not all for the same room!) I might be tempted to buy a few.

-David
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2008, 12:08 AM   #859
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Certainly if your have the DCX9624 then you don't need anything in the subs but a power amp. The DCX can do everything else.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2008, 02:11 AM   #860
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
So Dr. Geddes, I gather then you're not a fan of the idea of taking a LR line out of the preamp, and into the subwoofer amp, then feeding a crossover filtered line out of the sub amp, into the main amp, which I've read, makes the amp and main speakers more efficient.

That school of thought goes, if your main speakers reach into the 40's, do that crossover business described above at 50Hz.

You're saying 'no', if I understand correctly. 'Give the mains a full range signal.' I've been going at this from the other way, looking for a cheap sub amp that has filtered line outs, like the NHTs. (used)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:01 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2