Building the Nathan 10 - Page 51 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th August 2008, 06:13 PM   #501
Variac is offline Variac  United States
diyAudio Editor
 
Variac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco, USA
Quote:
the guides on the Nathan because they are quite thick
if auplater can make them accurately which seems to be easily done
with his technique, then they can be quite thin as it should be very easy apply a thick coat of bitumin, polyester or epoxy resin, that water based roofing stuff, that "rigid foam in a can" used in construction to seal cracks, or put them in a box of sand, there are many options and they don't have to be precise if they are applied on the outside...
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 06:15 PM   #502
MaVo is offline MaVo  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
I just painted my living room to match the speakers, I can post some pics if you guys would like to see my attempts at blending them into a modern decor. They're not easy to hide, but the sound is worth it IMHO.

yeah post pics please
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 06:18 PM   #503
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


So thats some placement suggestions that I have found work in the multitudes of rooms that I have done.

The setup that Marcus showed earlier in this thread is typical (speakers against the wall and on the floor, pointing at the listener, with an equipment cabinet in between), but as you can see from the discussion here, it is not what I would recommend.
I've tried three different set ups with the Summas in two different rooms. Yesterday I stumbled upon an arrangement which sounds dramatically better than my second setup, and marginally better than my first.

Setup #1 - This was in the basement of a brick house I own. Basically a cramped home theater. I wasn't expecting much from the Summas in such a small room, but they worked really well. Even though they were way too close to the walls, the imaging was amazing. I used an off-center approach espoused over on decware.com. The Summas were cross-fired, as recommended in the PDF file from gedlee.com.

Setup #2 - I tried replicating setup #1 in my new house. The sound wasn't nearly as good. I believe much of this was due to the fact that the new house has very tall ceilings, and hardwood floors. This is the trend in new manufacturing, and it doesn't sound very good. I'm not saying the Summas sound bad (they sound great.) But the room is terrible.

Setup #3 - In this setup I've basically followed the set up instructions from gedlee.com to the letter. The speakers are five feet from any wall, they're toed in, and I'm seated twelve feet away. This setup is definitely the best by far. There's an enormous sound stage and better coherence. The treble also seems to sound "mellower." This could be due to the rug that I added to the room on Sunday though. All in all, it sounds great.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 06:26 PM   #504
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally posted by loopguru
The only reviews or listening impression notes I've found so far are from people who listened to the Summas and subs in Dr. Geddes listening room.

Can someone please provide a link to reviews or impressions of the sound of the Summa or Nathan in their own, after purchase, environment?

I gather multiple subs are preferred in conjunction with these speakers, but does that mean the speakers aren't full range, or, not satisfying in LF, by themselves?
I don't have the exact URLs handy, but I've posted reviews of the Summa.

After hearing it at the RMAF in 2004, I bought one of the last pairs earlier this year.

I've had it set up at two different houses (one is a 50yo brick house, the other was built in 2007 and is typical of new construction.)

The reviews were posted about 3 months ago on diyaudio iirc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 06:40 PM   #505
diyAudio Member
 
auplater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KyOhWVa tristate
Default horn - ey

Quote:
Originally posted by Variac


if auplater can make them accurately which seems to be easily done
with his technique, then they can be quite thin as it should be very easy apply a thick coat of bitumin, polyester or epoxy resin, that water based roofing stuff, that "rigid foam in a can" used in construction to seal cracks, or put them in a box of sand, there are many options and they don't have to be precise if they are applied on the outside...
From that wiki place

"In the basic electroforming process, an electrolytic bath is used to deposit nickel or other electroplatable metal onto a conductive patterned surface, such as glass or stainless steel. Once the plated material has been built up to the desired thickness, the electroformed part is stripped off the master substrate. This process allows high-quality duplication of the master and therefore permits quality production--at low unit costs with high repeatability and excellent process control.

Compared to other basic metal forming processes (casting, forging, stamping, deep drawing, machining and fabricating) electroforming is very effective when requirements call for extreme tolerances, complexity or light weight.

A wide variety of shapes and sizes can be made by electroforming, the principal limitation being the need to strip the product from the mandrel. Since the fabrication of a product requires only a single pattern or mandrel, low production quantities can be made economically."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroforming

looks like I'll be ordering a cheap horn for "show & tell"..

just as I get my last youngin' out of the house and off to college...

me and my big mouth....


John L.
__________________
"...His brain is squirming like a toad..." Jim Morrison
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 06:54 PM   #506
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


Geddes did this as a favour? That implies we should be grateful or even that we owe him something. I'm guessing what we owe him is some slack in this case? Criticism drives products forwards, not settling for third rate. He should take on board what's been said and either make it clear about the quality and level of finish his products display so the buyer can make a more informed decision or use it to make better products and fix the problems existing customers are having. Thankfully due to this thread at least some of that appears to be happening already.

Regardless of this, he's making money here, make no mistake. All along he's made it clear that he considers himself commercial and makes a living from audio. He came here and gave information but at the same time marketed his design concepts and products. No favour from him, its business that's the primary concern.

Let call a spade a spade. Your very much into the whole idea of these waveguides and loudspeakers but I think that's clouding the issue somewhat and in turn makes it tough to discuss this with you. My opinions have been based on information that's been posted throughout this thread and it doesn't look great. Most of what you've talked about is unrelated to the matter at hand and that is Earl messed up a couple of peoples orders and will hopefully fix these issues. I don't think you need to be fastidious and meticulous to appreciate this fact.
Dr Geddes could make a hell of a lot more money doing audio work as a full time employee. As DIY'ers, we're VERY LUCKY that guys like Geddes and Danley post on here. Some of the old timers might remember guys like Dan Wiggins, who was also very generous with his time.

Sooner or later they all lose a ton of money on the DIY market, throw in the towel, and get a day job.

I read a post from Dan Wiggins where he said that he can make a lot more money designing a speaker for a speakerphone than for the hifi market. He was basically saying there are companies out there that will buy 10,000 speakers for a phone, but finding a hundred people to buy a loudspeaker is tough.

Didn't the owner of Lambda Audio end up selling insurance a few years back, after losing too much money on his DIY business?
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 07:08 PM   #507
Variac is offline Variac  United States
diyAudio Editor
 
Variac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco, USA
More ro the electroforming wiki:

"The advantage of the electroforming process is that it reproduces the form or mandrel to within one micrometre without the shrinkage and distortion associated with other metal forming techniques such as casting, stamping or drawing. And, since the mandrel is machined as an outside surface, close dimensional tolerances and high surface finishes can be held and maintained on complex interior configurations."
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 07:15 PM   #508
MEH is offline MEH  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
I used an off-center approach espoused over on decware.com.
Could you please elaborate -- or point me to the right article at decware?
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 07:17 PM   #509
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
gedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by badman
in this instance, since it has no 'exclusive' patent coverage vs. the previously released product) but is still built into the price.
This isn't true since the patent on the foam plug is still "pending" and I have every expectation of issue - just with what wording. In any case it will cover the plug as currently used. Thus, perhaps you can get a cheaper waveguide made in metal (although I would never use metal) there is still the foam plug to contend with. There is simply no way that waveguides like I sell will ever appear at a cost less than what I sell them at. Thats what patents are for.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2008, 07:21 PM   #510
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
It's long, but the idea is simple:

#1 - take your regular room setup
#2 - rotate the ENTIRE THING a few degrees. Like fifteen degrees.
#3 - now that the whole room has been rotated, reflections off the walls won't happen simultaneously in *time.*

For example, if you have the typical setup, with two speakers spaced the same distance from the side walls, firing ahead, there will be an equal reflection off the side walls which occurs at the same time for BOTH speakers.

When you rotate the room, the reflection still occurs, but they occur at different frequencies and at different times for the two speakers.

http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

In my experience, this works particularly well for small rooms.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:37 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2