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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 19th August 2008, 04:03 PM   #491
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by markus76



That's why I posted. Don't feel provoked by my comments. I'm just trying to adjust my knowledge with that of others.

The diffracted wave from the edges of the TV and cabinet that reaches the ear directly is so low in volume (how much?) that I can't believe that it will cause image shift. I would have to look up the threshold levels.

Best, Markus
You will find that there isn't any data in this regard, except what Lidia and I have published. The level is indeed low, but because diffraction occurs latter in time than the direct sound it has no masking in either time or frequency and as such tends to be audible even at these low levels. In my room I went to as much care to reduce very near diffraction as was possible. This appears to have paid off big dividends.

The HOMs and horn diffraction are also very low in level and yet they appear to be significant contributors to poor sound quality. If you go to extremes to reduce diffraction in the waveguide (as I do) but don't take the same care with diffraction in the room then much of the advantage is defeated.

Its impossible not to be defensive here.
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Old 19th August 2008, 04:13 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee
"
There are two degreed manufacturing engineers who believe so strongly in what I am doing that they help me out for free. I have nothing but respect for them - and I show it (unlike you).
touched a nerve, eh?

Right back atcha.. Dr. Geddes, respect is a double edge sword..
good luck.

Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc
"
Well, please have a closer look at the guides on the Nathan because they are quite thick. So how many would you have to make for the price to be US$200? Electroforming technology is also used in label manufacturing.
Seeing as how EF nickel is ~120 - 150 ksi in tension, which is at least an order of magnitude greater than any poly(whatever), the thickness can be greatly reduced for equivalent stiffness.

John L.
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Old 19th August 2008, 04:26 PM   #493
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally posted by auplater


...


Seeing as how EF nickel is ~120 - 150 ksi in tension, which is at least an order of magnitude greater than any poly(whatever), the thickness can be greatly reduced for equivalent stiffness.

John L.
Well, those are going to ring more...well, you should know the properies better than I.
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Old 19th August 2008, 04:31 PM   #494
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Default ringing

Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc

Well, those are going to ring more...well, you should know the properies better than I.
Actually, as deposited EFNi is a different beast than bulk metals... or I may use amorphous nickel.... but you gave me an idea... maybe plate lead on the back to dampen any resonance.. hmmn

we'll see

John L.
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Old 19th August 2008, 04:52 PM   #495
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ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!

Am I the only one here that is tired of the venom being expressed in this thread? The tone is terrible. Many of you sound like whining children rather than thinking adults. To put it blunt, MANY OF YOU SOUND LIKE MORONS.

Dr Geddes is a scientist and not a manufacturing engineer. He has never claimed to be anything else. The work that he is sharing with us (for free!) is truly worthy of a little extra sanding. Too many here are talking out the wrong bodily orifice. It is this kind of behaviour that stops many skilled and interesting people from participating in these forums.

NOW GET OVER IT. Don't bother flaming me as I won't respond.

I for one am looking forward to a pair of Abbeys. And I have already budgeted for extra sand paper. Big deal ...
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Old 19th August 2008, 05:29 PM   #496
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Carl, no need to be rude. Discussion hear is broad and sometimes a little bit too personal but nonetheless everybody here knows how to cope with that without feeling the need to abuse others.

Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee You will find that there isn't any data in this regard, except what Lidia and I have published.
Earl, are there any papers in JAES or similar publications? I have easy access to that and always love to learn something new.

And yes, there'll be definitely a new thread called "Placing the Nathan 10" Why is there no room acoustics section in this board??

Best, Markus
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Old 19th August 2008, 05:34 PM   #497
FrankWW is offline FrankWW  Canada
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An interesting thing I find about discussion boards is that since we rarely meet the folk we write to and read, we don't have all the non verbal cues which modify meaning.

Because of this we sometimes misunderstand the intention behind statements.

Also, this means some folk sometimes write things they would never say in person.

Sometimes this is good. People can express thoughts without being interrupted, they can recover a lost chain of conversation and this rarely happens in ordinary conversation.

And, of course when people invest a lot of thought, time and energy to anything, their instinct is to defend it, rightly so, I think. But this doesn't necessarily lead to peaceful discussion.


I have a quick temper and I find I now deep six about 30% of the posts I write.
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Old 19th August 2008, 05:48 PM   #498
badman is offline badman  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carl_Huff
ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!

Am I the only one here that is tired of the venom being expressed in this thread? The tone is terrible. Many of you sound like whining children rather than thinking adults. To put it blunt, MANY OF YOU SOUND LIKE MORONS.

Dr Geddes is a scientist and not a manufacturing engineer. He has never claimed to be anything else. The work that he is sharing with us (for free!) is truly worthy of a little extra sanding. Too many here are talking out the wrong bodily orifice. It is this kind of behaviour that stops many skilled and interesting people from participating in these forums.

NOW GET OVER IT. Don't bother flaming me as I won't respond.

I for one am looking forward to a pair of Abbeys. And I have already budgeted for extra sand paper. Big deal ...
You realize that you're the one typing in all caps, using insulting names and vulgar commentary?

He's not sharing it for free. He's repeatedly talked about making money on this endeavor, not to mention that IP is an instant amortization from an accounting perspective (in this instance, since it has no 'exclusive' patent coverage vs. the previously released product) but is still built into the price.

Big deal? The throats, which have been claimed to be of utmost importance in precision, are going to be brought to precise by the buyer with sandpaper in the case of the terrible fiberglass horns? As if they can 'finger feel' the exact profile with any precision?

You sound like someone on audio review who needs to vehemently defend their purchase decisions as the best thing ever.
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Old 19th August 2008, 05:51 PM   #499
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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Keep it civil and on-topic, guys. Iíve seen quite a few excellent posts on how to help each other in this rather unfortunate thread. Thinking twice before pushing the Ďpostí button will help a lot, too.

/Hugo
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Old 19th August 2008, 06:06 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN
Pjpoes, when does your order from Earl arrive then?
Here's some commentary about the Nathan kits from a Summa owner, if anyone is interested.

I've been listening to and building horns and waveguides since the 90s. I bought a pair of Summas, fully aware that they were built by hand and that there might be an imperfection here and there.

You know what? They look 10 times better than I'd expected. The finish is about as good as it gets when they're built by hand.

Are there better looking speakers? Yes, absolutely. But I'm more interested in what a speaker SOUNDS like than what it LOOKS like.

Honestly, it's frustrating to see everyone get so upset about the finish on the kits. I work from home, listen to my Summas for eight to twelve hours every day, and LOVE THEM.

Hell, I use my Summas more than I use my car, so this is a BARGAIN as far as I'm concerned.

I just painted my living room to match the speakers, I can post some pics if you guys would like to see my attempts at blending them into a modern decor. They're not easy to hide, but the sound is worth it IMHO.
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