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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 19th August 2008, 02:13 PM   #481
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tenson



How have you treated your room? Do you aim more for a LEDE approach or closer to non-environment? Or nothing like either?

Room design is a rather massive topic and not really on the topic here. My book is a good source of info. A new thread on room design and loudspeaker setup might be appropriate.

One thing that I will say that is on topic is that I hope that builders of the Nathans set them up correctly. I, of course, can't control this. These speakers were not designed to be listened to on-axis, they are flattest at 22.5 off-axis. To be off axis there are two directions, but clearly only the one with the speakers facing towards the center of the room makes sense and this is what they were design for. This makes for the largest "sweet spot" possible. In that configuration it is important not to have anything that can diffract the sound between the speakers. This diffraction would be serious as it would cause an image complication and coloration from the delayed signal. Its best not to have the speakers back against the wall and to have as much absorption behind the speakers as possible. A very heavy drap or curtain hung out about a foot with a lot of damping material on the wall behind it it is what I do. The room behind the listener is far less critical than that behind the speakers, but floor, ceiling and sidewall reflections are all very important. The floor can be broken up with a coffee table and a rug (so long as the coffee table is not too big). The side walls can and should have reflection treatments more to scatter the reflection than to absorb it. Ceilings are virtually always the weak spot in the rooms that I have seen because anything that you do is obvious and its always difficult because it has to be hung.

So thats some placement suggestions that I have found work in the multitudes of rooms that I have done.

The setup that Marcus showed earlier in this thread is typical (speakers against the wall and on the floor, pointing at the listener, with an equipment cabinet in between), but as you can see from the discussion here, it is not what I would recommend.
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Old 19th August 2008, 02:16 PM   #482
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: costs

Quote:
Originally posted by auplater
... cost is more in the technology and effort than materials...
And thats not true for what I do?
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Old 19th August 2008, 02:45 PM   #483
MEH is offline MEH  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

A new thread on room design and loudspeaker setup might be appropriate.
And welcome. Either that, or finish rewriting and posting the appropriate chapter(s) from your HT book.
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Old 19th August 2008, 02:48 PM   #484
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: costs

Quote:
Originally posted by soongsc

At that rate, how do you figure you can do the wave guides for less than US$200?
trade secret... no reason can't make more than one at a time...

heck, I've grown electroforms with over 2" of nickel/copper on ss or al mandrels

Quote:
Originally posted by markus76
Electroforming sounds interesting but doesn't the mandrel need to be specially treated for every use?
just needs to be conductive... in a special way

Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


And thats not true for what I do?
did I say that?

Earl, your design and theoretical credentials are impeccable, you're technology looks great, but you're mfg. and marketing skills need an "extreme makeover"....

and why the " " around the manufacturing engineers in the other thread re: casting the complete baffle? Seems to me to indicate a condescending attitude about their suggestions, as if the term doesn't mean what it sounds like.

John L.
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Old 19th August 2008, 02:56 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee The setup that Marcus showed earlier in this thread is typical (speakers against the wall and on the floor, pointing at the listener, with an equipment cabinet in between), but as you can see from the discussion here, it is not what I would recommend. [/B]
Why do you think that's critical? The speakers will be on stands in the final setup. All boundaries are more than 50 cm away so there should be no problem with summing localization.
Reflections from the equipment are scattered away from the listening position. The TV even aids in covering the first early reflections from the inner part of the front wall.

Best, Markus
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Old 19th August 2008, 03:08 PM   #486
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: costs

Quote:
Originally posted by auplater


trade secret... no reason can't make more than one at a time...

....

John L.
Well, please have a closer look at the guides on the Nathan because they are quite thick. So how many would you have to make for the price to be US$200? Electroforming technology is also used in label manufacturing.
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Old 19th August 2008, 03:09 PM   #487
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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"Reflections from the equipment are scattered away from the listening position. "

Diffraction goes in all directions so this isn't true of diffraction. It has been my experience that diffracting elements close to the speakers are disruptive to the sound quality. This has been confirmed by the experiments that Lidia and I did. Maybe it is out of the summing localization window, but 50 cm will still be well within the region where colloration and image shifts will occur.

Markus, set your speakers up any way you want. I'm just giving my recommendations.
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Old 19th August 2008, 03:14 PM   #488
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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"and why the " " around the manufacturing engineers in the other thread re: casting the complete baffle? Seems to me to indicate a condescending attitude about their suggestions, as if the term doesn't mean what it sounds like."

There are two degreed manufacturing engineers who believe so strongly in what I am doing that they help me out for free. I have nothing but respect for them - and I show it (unlike you).
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Old 19th August 2008, 03:21 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee I'm just giving my recommendations. [/B]

That's why I posted. Don't feel provoked by my comments. I'm just trying to adjust my knowledge with that of others.

The diffracted wave from the edges of the TV and cabinet that reaches the ear directly is so low in volume (how much?) that I can't believe that it will cause image shift. I would have to look up the threshold levels.

Best, Markus
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Old 19th August 2008, 03:40 PM   #490
badman is offline badman  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee
There are two degreed manufacturing engineers who believe so strongly in what I am doing that they help me out for free. I have nothing but respect for them - and I show it (unlike you).
If they've been with you from early on in this endeavor, no wonder they have to work for free!
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