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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 17th August 2008, 10:28 PM   #401
pjpoes is offline pjpoes  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by loopguru
I know the size is different, but my point remains the same. Both the British company and Geddes applied for or hold patents, incurring R&D costs.

Both have cost of materials to factor in; I suspect there's more in material cost in the assembled, smaller, $1600 British speaker.

I think there is not more parts cost or materials in that speaker. I think you are making it out to be more than it is. They are trying to sell that as a giant killer mini speaker, buts its not. I have auditioned them, as I was interested when I first saw them, but they perform like other 1500 dollar minimonitors. The efficiency is 82db's at 1 watt, as compared to the high 90's for Dr. Geddes. Max output of that design will be 100db's at most, assuming it doesn't run out of xmax, where as Dr. Geddes will cleanly do over 115db's for the smaller kit and over 120 for the larger kits. Probably over 120 for all of them if somewhat bandwidth limited. The cost of small enclosures is disproportionately less to produce than larger ones, so even the slightly higher cost of the cast resin enclosure wont likely be as high as what a larger enclosure would be.

The kits are offered without the cabinets by the way. These aren't easy assembly kits though, and Dr. Geddes has said before that he never said they were. If you get just the drivers, horn, and foam insert, you have to cut a front baffle yourself and adhere the horn to it. It's not like other horns that have mounting screw holes and can just be inserted into the cabinet. My guess is that Dr. Geddes did this to avoid diffraction problems.

Another issue here, which may be the difference in expectations we all seem to have, is that I don't consider Dr. Geddes a vendor. I mean, Gedlee is a company, but I really was looking at these kits as more of a favor to DIYers than anything. It seems like there are a lot of people on this forum and others who will have a design for something, and will either produce more of them than they need, or even start a separate side business to sell them, but not really run it as the primary form of employment. Maybe this is all Dr. Geddes is doing right now, I don't really know, but that was my initial assumption based on how he approached offering the kits.

The parts express boxes can't really be compared with what is needed for Dr. Geddes project (Otherwise I'm sure he would use them), or what I have needed to buy in the past. While I don't want to get into a huge debate over the quality of them, I will say that they are very small, and mass produced by the millions in China. They are made by, as I understand it, the largest cabinet manufacturer in China, and the design was a sort of in house oem design, of which variations are sold to 100's if not 1000's of speaker manufacturers and retailers. While for most smaller bookshelf designs up to a mid sized MTM, I think they are a great value, they aren't offered in large enough sizes to be practical for larger or more complex designs. When I have asked Madisound and Parts Express why they don't offer larger enclosures, they told me it wasn't economical for them. Shipping is way too high from China, and then to customers, they don't sell as many of them, and even in mass production, the end cost is too close to what a cabinet maker would charge. The quote that Madisound gave me for a 3 cubic foot tower from the same company that makes their enclosures (Which I think they said are not made in China, but I'm not sure), was around 400 each, or 800 for the pair, with 100 dollars shipping to the customer, so around 900. I don't blame them for not offering anything larger than the 1.3 cubic foot tower, and for PE not offering a tower or really large bookshelf at all.

Maybe you guys over across the pond have it better than us American diyers when it comes to enclosure availability. It does seem like you guys have more suppliers and companies than us, but maybe its one of those, the honey is always sweeter in the other hive things.
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Old 17th August 2008, 10:59 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjpoes
Another issue here, which may be the difference in expectations we all seem to have, is that I don't consider Dr. Geddes a vendor. I mean, Gedlee is a company, but I really was looking at these kits as more of a favor to DIYers than anything. It seems like there are a lot of people on this forum and others who will have a design for something, and will either produce more of them than they need, or even start a separate side business to sell them, but not really run it as the primary form of employment. Maybe this is all Dr. Geddes is doing right now, I don't really know, but that was my initial assumption based on how he approached offering the kits.
Geddes did this as a favour? That implies we should be grateful or even that we owe him something. I'm guessing what we owe him is some slack in this case? Criticism drives products forwards, not settling for third rate. He should take on board what's been said and either make it clear about the quality and level of finish his products display so the buyer can make a more informed decision or use it to make better products and fix the problems existing customers are having. Thankfully due to this thread at least some of that appears to be happening already.

Regardless of this, he's making money here, make no mistake. All along he's made it clear that he considers himself commercial and makes a living from audio. He came here and gave information but at the same time marketed his design concepts and products. No favour from him, its business that's the primary concern.

Let call a spade a spade. Your very much into the whole idea of these waveguides and loudspeakers but I think that's clouding the issue somewhat and in turn makes it tough to discuss this with you. My opinions have been based on information that's been posted throughout this thread and it doesn't look great. Most of what you've talked about is unrelated to the matter at hand and that is Earl messed up a couple of peoples orders and will hopefully fix these issues. I don't think you need to be fastidious and meticulous to appreciate this fact.
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:13 PM   #403
Tenson is offline Tenson  United Kingdom
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Just to say, I do hope Dr. Geddes does not take the criticism to heart. It is hard when you have put a lot of yourself in to an item, to have people pick holes in it.

However, I do hope that he takes constructive points away from this thread and manages to create a more informative website and improve the fit and finish of his product.
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:33 PM   #404
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Originally posted by pjpoes ... I don't consider Dr. Geddes a vendor. I mean, Gedlee is a company, ...
I really don't want to start with Adam and Eve, but 1 + 1 = 1? All his communication is done from his LLC, so there's no other way than seeing Earl as a vendor.

Best, Markus
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:58 PM   #405
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Absolutely. I could not do what he does.

I could, however, hire a shop to cut faster and better (and maybe cheaper) than I.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tenson
Just to say, I do hope Dr. Geddes does not take the criticism to heart. It is hard when you have put a lot of yourself in to an item, to have people pick holes in it.

However, I do hope that he takes constructive points away from this thread and manages to create a more informative website and improve the fit and finish of his product.
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Old 18th August 2008, 12:07 AM   #406
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hi guys, I've never heard waveguide-loaded tweeters before, but really keen to clone the Physics CS2.

The commercial 12" waveguide I can only find is something like this, which will be used with selenium compression driver:

Click the image to open in full size.

They're only $20 or so. So I am now wondering what is the difference between this and the discussed $200 waveguides in this thread? What is so compelling about it that I want to spend 10x the cost and still put up with quality issue?
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Old 18th August 2008, 12:21 AM   #407
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tenson
Just to say, I do hope Dr. Geddes does not take the criticism to heart. It is hard when you have put a lot of yourself in to an item, to have people pick holes in it.

However, I do hope that he takes constructive points away from this thread and manages to create a more informative website and improve the fit and finish of his product.
Same here. It's not an easy decision to determine which opinions to consider and which not, but I think the wave guides in the Nathan seems much more decent than the ones that Brett received. Probably Brett would be satisfied if he received those white ones less the baffle?
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Old 18th August 2008, 12:31 AM   #408
ttan98 is offline ttan98  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by gainphile
hi guys, I've never heard waveguide-loaded tweeters before, but really keen to clone the Physics CS2.

The commercial 12" waveguide I can only find is something like this, which will be used with selenium compression driver:

Click the image to open in full size.

They're only $20 or so. So I am now wondering what is the difference between this and the discussed $200 waveguides in this thread? What is so compelling about it that I want to spend 10x the cost and still put up with quality issue?
Hi,

I have used the 10" version I don't recommend it try RCF H100 horn with B&C DE250 this combo is very good and well priced less than, $150 for this combo, DE250 is better than Selenium D220Ti, I have a pair as well.
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Old 18th August 2008, 12:47 AM   #409
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There are other threads out there explaining in detail what Earls waveguide does. Only one thing: it's trying to be better than any other horn or waveguide out there.

Best, Markus
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Old 18th August 2008, 01:16 AM   #410
pjpoes is offline pjpoes  United States
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Hey to each there own here right. Some people think the product being peddled is unacceptable, others think its fine for what it is. If you look at his vendor page, there is a happy customer too who shows a great looking set of baffles. My DIY experience has not, apparently, been quite as positive, especially in the speaker enclosure and amplifier enclosure department, so I'm used to things like this.
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