Building the Nathan 10

[soongsc]

When did you compare speakers with "realistic onset feel" to any of Earl's waveguide speakers coupled with multiple subwoofers in order to gain this experience you speak of?

When did anyone compare ANY speaker with live performance of a wide audio spectrum nature?

 

[markus76]

Whenever reproduction of a single instrument is played back through two or more drivers, these drivers just need to be as close as possible together. This is no new understanding, just often ignored to gain other effects.

You need to explain that more in depth.
The way you put it I have to answer: No. If you want to reproduce a single instrument it would be better to have as much drivers as necessary to come close to the very unique directivity pattern of that specific instrument.
Stereophony is something completely different.

 

[markus76]

Originally posted by soongsc When did anyone compare ANY speaker with live performance of a wide audio spectrum nature?

There were a lot of comparisons in the past using dummy head recordings. But again: don't forget that the speaker can't be seperated from the recording and the room.

 

[MEH]

When did anyone compare ANY speaker with live performance of a wide audio spectrum nature?

Live performance? No one was talking about live performance, but rather about the supposed superiority of speakers with "realistic onset feel" over Earl's speakers combined with multiple subwoofers.

 

[limono]

well , since Earl himself said that in closed box nothing is critical
you can build as big enclosure as you please and drivers parameters allow. It does sound like an enclosure itself is non critical for speaker performance so forget those matrix and Magico enclosure BS.;0)
You guys are too funny I mean for HT and studio mixing of pop/rock muzaks why even bother with any quality, where there is no common factor for any evaluation ??

 

[soongsc]

Live performance? No one was talking about live performance, but rather about the supposed superiority of speakers with "realistic onset feel" over Earl's speakers combined with multiple subwoofers.

Comparing two speakers without knowing what a live performance is like is meaningless.

 

[soongsc]

There were a lot of comparisons in the past using dummy head recordings. But again: don't forget that the speaker can't be seperated from the recording and the room.

That is why it is important to know what is effected by the room and what not. Room modes do not come into play until the first reflections. Certainly you won't position the speakers such that the first reflection reaches the listener first.

 

[soongsc]

...You guys are too funny I mean for HT and studio mixing of pop/rock muzaks why even bother with any quality, where there is no common factor for any evaluation ??

This is a very good point. I wonder the same thing myself sometimes and ask myself whether it's worth the effort. If all we use the speakers are for those purposes, products from Bose or other even more economically priced products might just be okay. But then there are still people producing music that aim for what we aim for as well, so I think it's still worth it.

 

[markus76]

You guys are too funny I mean for HT and studio mixing of pop/rock muzaks why even bother with any quality, where there is no common factor for any evaluation ??

As I wrote before: the original is what the audio engineer heard in the mixing room. So the mixing room itself is the common factor.

Comparing two speakers without knowing what a live performance is like is meaningless.

Of course it's not, because as I said before stereophony isn't capable of recreating the orignal soundfield from a live performance. It has its own features. You can only evaluate features stereophony provides. Talk to an audio engineer. He will tell you that every recording is a product of compromises.
Furthermore there is no natural instrument used in e.g. pop multitrack recordings. So is that type of music meaningless because you can't compare it?

That is why it is important to know what is effected by the room and what not. Room modes do not come into play until the first reflections. Certainly you won't position the speakers such that the first reflection reaches the listener first.

There simply is no way that a reflection reaches the listener before the direct sound.
With all that said I still don't understand what you meant by posting this

Originally posted by soongsc Well, my experience is that whether you have additional subs is a different issue. The mains should go all the way down as low as possible to preserve realistic onset feel of the recorded low frequency sound source.

Best, Markus

 

[soongsc]

...
With all that said I still don't understand what you meant by posting this



Best, Markus

I was just wondering whether the low frequency of the Nathans can be extended, then a series of Q&A led to this.

 

[soongsc]

As I wrote before: the original is what the audio engineer heard in the mixing room. So the mixing room itself is the common factor.



Of course it's not, because as I said before stereophony isn't capable of recreating the orignal soundfield from a live performance. It has its own features. You can only evaluate features stereophony provides. Talk to an audio engineer. He will tell you that every recording is a product of compromises.
Furthermore there is no natural instrument used in e.g. pop multitrack recordings. So is that type of music meaningless because you can't compare it?



...
Best, Markus

Still it should have pretty realistic representation of the transient and steady characteristics of the original musical instrument.

 

[limono]

.
Furthermore there is no natural instrument used in e.g. pop multitrack recordings. So is that type of music meaningless because you can't compare it?


No , of course it's not.
But this is probabaly a reason why Earl doesn't bother with listening tests too much and trust only measurements and scientific data.

Damn ,I live so close that I could stop by and listen to Summas anytime but I'm already broke ,dentist is haunting me and I'm (too) easily affected by good speakers

 

[markus76]

Originally posted by soongsc Still it should have pretty realistic representation of the transient and steady characteristics of the original musical instrument.

Sure but we were talking about frequencies below 80 hz (that's the -6 db point of the Nathan) where the point source model is no longer needed. Here the group delay can be up to 10 ms which is 3.4 m (11 ft) before it becomes audible.

Best, Markus

 

[soongsc]

Bear in mind that Earls designs probably took into consideration for playback in a large room or outdoors where higher SPL is required, then that low frequency for a driver that size is probably right. If I wanted to listen in a smaller room at a distance say 3M in front of the speakers, then it can be played at lower SPL, and thus will also benefit from extending the low frequency, thus probably reducing the need for subs.

 

[markus76]

Definitely not. You may read more about Earls approach in this paper: http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/Cum laude.pdf

Best, Markus

 

[markus76]

3rd coat:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Here's a detail:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Looks rougher than it is in real. It will also smooth itself a little more over time. But this is what you can basically expect from rolling on acrylic paint.

Best, Markus

 

[tinitus]

It looks smooth allright, as long as one doesnt get insects, hairs or what else into the paint

 

[Grumpy_Git]

Markus

Many thanks for your pictures, just what I asked for.

I assume from your comments that you are happy with the finish and will not be polishing the surface for a mirror type finish?

Thanks again.

Nick.

 

[markus76]

No, polishing won't work in that case. If you want to have a real glossy finish you have to spray the box. Rolling on is only good for flat or satin like finishes.

Best, Markus

 

[Variac]

Markus,
I don't believe that is what some of the sites about rolling on paint say. They DO polish it. You have to sand it between application of layers though, not just at the end. Now according to Early it takes longer for acrylic to harden to where it can be sanded and polished so it would take a while between coats..