Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: paint
gedlee said:
Well, I've been searching around the yellow pages and shows here, the water based ones used on flooring does not provide the shine that I'm looking for. So it's either I'm too picky, or I just haven't found it yet. The shop that does work for me also has the same problem. But I'm still looking. Any preferred brand names? Do they go as hard as 3~4H?FrankWW said:
markus76 said:
Believe it or not you can get a show car quality finish with a roller and regular old rustoleum enamel.
Here's a thread with a lot of discussion
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
and a picture of the results
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rolls Royce cars were hand painted with a brush up until I think the eighties when they finally moved to spray on finish. Actually I bet the main reason for the change was a company sale and not an attempt to upgrade with the times.
I really like Menzerna products for buffing. I use them on my car and cars I detail a lot and have found them to be the best and easiest to use product I can get. They also seem to work, as advertised, with less different buffing stages. I used to do the final polish work on show cars as well as the final detailing of a friend of mines family classic car shop, and I remember that with most other products we used (3m, Mothers, etc.) it would take usually 4-6 different levels. With Menzerna I could get away with 3, and only 2 actual cutting agencts, one was a sort of chemical abrasive, if you will, used as a final step (it was called a glaze and contains no abrasive compounds). Menzerna is German for all you German product fans. I can't speak to how these products would work on the paints that Dr. Geddes is using as I've never tried, but I would guess that the glaze would not be a good idea, but the others are probably fine.
Anyone tried any of the new clear coat finishes with ceramic binders. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right, but I understand that they are being used almost exclusively by Mercedes and BMW right now, and that the final finish is much more scratch resistant. I suppose this would matter a lot more for a car than for speakers, but I touch my speakers enough that I typically scratch them. I will warn anyone wanting to try them, these are not for simple layperson hand application. Having detailed a few cars with this finish I can tell you that getting out scratches is really hard, and I can only imagine what the initial polishing is like. I know it requires special compounds which cost more and are harder to use. I wouldn't be shocked if I was one of 2 or 3 people who even have this compound here in Lafayette. Maybe less, I remember trying to buy some through the BMW dealer, and they told me they didn't have any special buffing compound for the ceramic clear coat, and that it was impervious to scratching, so they had no need (which is untrue). I ended up having to order it and pay all sorts of transport fees.
Another little trick thats worthwhile for anyone who is going to use spray cans instead of a sprayer, place all the cans into a bucket of hot water. The hot water helps increase the internal pressure, which gives a more professional look. Also clean the nozzle frequently so as not to get any large droplet spatter on the finish. This is recommended for car finishes all the time, so I'm sure its true here as well. I use the warm water thing for spray can finishes, and I do find it makes a difference. Having said that, you can buy a cheap Chinese built compressor and sprayer for less than 70 dollars that, I think, still does a better job than any spray can finish. You can also check pawn shops for better larger compressors and see if you get a deal. Amazing how many people sell off power tools when they need bail money. The key to a good finish, from the air supply side, is having enough consistent pressure and dry air. This is, admittedly, the one area that cheap spray cans are better than cheap sprayer systems, the cans always have dry air.
I really like Menzerna products for buffing. I use them on my car and cars I detail a lot and have found them to be the best and easiest to use product I can get. They also seem to work, as advertised, with less different buffing stages. I used to do the final polish work on show cars as well as the final detailing of a friend of mines family classic car shop, and I remember that with most other products we used (3m, Mothers, etc.) it would take usually 4-6 different levels. With Menzerna I could get away with 3, and only 2 actual cutting agencts, one was a sort of chemical abrasive, if you will, used as a final step (it was called a glaze and contains no abrasive compounds). Menzerna is German for all you German product fans. I can't speak to how these products would work on the paints that Dr. Geddes is using as I've never tried, but I would guess that the glaze would not be a good idea, but the others are probably fine.
Anyone tried any of the new clear coat finishes with ceramic binders. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right, but I understand that they are being used almost exclusively by Mercedes and BMW right now, and that the final finish is much more scratch resistant. I suppose this would matter a lot more for a car than for speakers, but I touch my speakers enough that I typically scratch them. I will warn anyone wanting to try them, these are not for simple layperson hand application. Having detailed a few cars with this finish I can tell you that getting out scratches is really hard, and I can only imagine what the initial polishing is like. I know it requires special compounds which cost more and are harder to use. I wouldn't be shocked if I was one of 2 or 3 people who even have this compound here in Lafayette. Maybe less, I remember trying to buy some through the BMW dealer, and they told me they didn't have any special buffing compound for the ceramic clear coat, and that it was impervious to scratching, so they had no need (which is untrue). I ended up having to order it and pay all sorts of transport fees.
Another little trick thats worthwhile for anyone who is going to use spray cans instead of a sprayer, place all the cans into a bucket of hot water. The hot water helps increase the internal pressure, which gives a more professional look. Also clean the nozzle frequently so as not to get any large droplet spatter on the finish. This is recommended for car finishes all the time, so I'm sure its true here as well. I use the warm water thing for spray can finishes, and I do find it makes a difference. Having said that, you can buy a cheap Chinese built compressor and sprayer for less than 70 dollars that, I think, still does a better job than any spray can finish. You can also check pawn shops for better larger compressors and see if you get a deal. Amazing how many people sell off power tools when they need bail money. The key to a good finish, from the air supply side, is having enough consistent pressure and dry air. This is, admittedly, the one area that cheap spray cans are better than cheap sprayer systems, the cans always have dry air.
Heating the cans also thin the material. Yes, I would never spray without heating the cans in hot water first.
Glaze works great on acrylic. Acrylic is great stuff, ends up very hard as any floor finsiher will tell you. But It takes forever to dry. And in this humid weather, its like spray a coat, come back in the afternoon, spray another coat, and your done for the day.
Thats why the pros like two part - it doesn't dry it cures. Humidity, whatever, it doesn't matter, its usually cured in an hour or so and you can recoat.
So there is absolutely nothing wrong with the acrylic polyurethans from Rust-o-leum, they just take a looooong time.
And yes, you could brush it on and sand, etc. just like in the post above and get a great result - in about a month
FYI http://www.rustoleumibg.com/default.asp
I'm going to do a pair of speakers in GlowMax - how cool would that be - Glow-in-the-dark speakers!!
Glaze works great on acrylic. Acrylic is great stuff, ends up very hard as any floor finsiher will tell you. But It takes forever to dry. And in this humid weather, its like spray a coat, come back in the afternoon, spray another coat, and your done for the day.
Thats why the pros like two part - it doesn't dry it cures. Humidity, whatever, it doesn't matter, its usually cured in an hour or so and you can recoat.
So there is absolutely nothing wrong with the acrylic polyurethans from Rust-o-leum, they just take a looooong time.
And yes, you could brush it on and sand, etc. just like in the post above and get a great result - in about a month
FYI http://www.rustoleumibg.com/default.asp
I'm going to do a pair of speakers in GlowMax - how cool would that be - Glow-in-the-dark speakers!!
gedlee said:And yes, you could brush it on and sand, etc. just like in the post above and get a great result - in about a month
But the mess created from spraying stays forever. That is a huge thread, and is a 3 part trilogy. It is going to take forever to read.
On the 3rd post of this page, a poster listed several websites that summarized the techniques.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3493382&page=0&fpart=20&vc=1
Please slow down. This thread is about building a cabinet made of MDF. So the question is still unanswered what works best in terms of
1. no spraying
2. widely available product
3. water based sealer so roller or brush can be cleaned with water
4. the less coats needed the better
5. 3 types of finishes possible:
a) rolling top coat for a "ok" look
b) fine sanding and polishing for a high gloss finish
c) let a paintshop do the finish
Possible?
Best, Markus
1. no spraying
2. widely available product
3. water based sealer so roller or brush can be cleaned with water
4. the less coats needed the better
5. 3 types of finishes possible:
a) rolling top coat for a "ok" look
b) fine sanding and polishing for a high gloss finish
c) let a paintshop do the finish
Possible?
Best, Markus
Glow in the Dark! Reminds me of those Glitter painted ones from way back.
1. no spraying
2. widely available product
3. water based sealer so roller or brush can be cleaned with water
4. the less coats needed the better
5. 3 types of finishes possible:
a) rolling top coat for a "ok" look
b) fine sanding and polishing for a high gloss finish
c) let a paintshop do the finish
I've always used Aldcroft's paint (aka Bule Aran Tuffcab) for water based painting, you can apply a coat once touch dry and it is very durable once done. The finish depends on the type of roller. I apply 5-7 coats for touring cabs, but good results can be had with 3. Th piant can be made from 10%-90% gloss. If I were you, I'd roll for the cab and use a pressure pot system for the WG.
I hope that's a help, if any.
1. no spraying
2. widely available product
3. water based sealer so roller or brush can be cleaned with water
4. the less coats needed the better
5. 3 types of finishes possible:
a) rolling top coat for a "ok" look
b) fine sanding and polishing for a high gloss finish
c) let a paintshop do the finish
I've always used Aldcroft's paint (aka Bule Aran Tuffcab) for water based painting, you can apply a coat once touch dry and it is very durable once done. The finish depends on the type of roller. I apply 5-7 coats for touring cabs, but good results can be had with 3. Th piant can be made from 10%-90% gloss. If I were you, I'd roll for the cab and use a pressure pot system for the WG.
I hope that's a help, if any.
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