My week with the Orions, or 'why do we bother' - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 20th July 2008, 03:48 AM   #11
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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Some interesting reading is Linkwitz's pages describing some of his measurement techniques, particularly distortion measurements. A link to his odd FR measurements and method is about 3/4 of the way down, and a link to his series of woofer measurment pages is at the bottom. Its kind of amazing how unconventional they are.
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Old 20th July 2008, 04:12 AM   #12
vactor is offline vactor  United States
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i originally built the Pluto after reading a LOT. i have also worked in home audio for a while and have listened to a LOT of high end speakers. give the depth of documentation and the ease of construction, i decided the plutos were a good project for me. i was BLOWN AWAY! sure, a lack of bass, but everything else was just amazing. i added the subwoofers (Pluto+) later and felt i need go no further. along comes my mother's 65th birthday and lo and behold someone is selling a complete Orion setup. i decide this would be a great present for my mom who secretly LOVES music but hates to ask for a way to make it more of a part of her life. so i get her the Orions and i was just smitten as was mom. i visit her regularly and she has them playing almost everytime i am there. what cuibono says is simply my experience as well, other than that i have no complaints about the treble. things just sound right to me. these will be my next speakers, as i have not had a musical experience as involved and smile invoking as the Orion. i cannot wait to make my own pair (need to move into a house). but all in all, you cannot go wrong with them. i would expect there are better speakers out there, but i have not heard them yet, and i am sure there are some that might do an individual thing better (maybe) than the orions, but wow, they really just sound fabulous!!
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Old 20th July 2008, 04:31 AM   #13
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by vactor
along comes my mother's 65th birthday and lo and behold someone is selling a complete Orion setup.

Thats awesome.

I'm glad you got to compare both, and I'm surprised more people haven't built the Plutos.

I wonder about those highs though. I read someone else have a similar complaint, but many people haven't. Who knows - all I know is that the Orions really might be the last speaker I own...
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Old 20th July 2008, 05:56 AM   #14
vactor is offline vactor  United States
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yeah, i cannot tell you how happy i am to have her talk about how much she listens to them and how often she is when i drop in on her. i'm quite jealous! and she just gushes over them.. she does listen to them quite loud, and they just shine! she also says that her friends and visitors (including the guy that fixed her air conditioner) were all blwon away with how they sound.
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Old 20th July 2008, 08:01 AM   #15
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For those of us who are currently poor - is there hope of coming up with a design that compares to the Orions, except much cheaper?

I'd like to build something like the Aethers, (dipole mids, BR bass) with Peerless Nomex mids and Seas ~ $40 tweeters, in two flavors: 1) passive crossover, 2) use the PC as crossover and bi or tri-amp...

I also noticed the (on Zaph's pages) Aurum Cantus woofer he tested looks impressive, but not used by DIYers?

EDIT: I might also build some Plutos, after seeing your enthusiasm for them, how important is it doing them active, could passive be as good?
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Old 20th July 2008, 08:25 AM   #16
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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Its nice to see the Aether's getting attention.

I put a lot of thought into the "Blackwood" and how to carry the open back MTM mids with a vented bass and passive x-o. I'm glad I managed to talk Paul around to trying the Aethers.
It seems to be a very nice all round budget minded compromise.

I know its not perfect, but I'll leave that to SL and the "Orion" to start approaching that goal.
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Old 20th July 2008, 11:28 AM   #17
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I built the Pluto and it actually has a voice to die for despite 15khz tweeter capability. Remember that SL had to revisit his Orion design after hearing the pluto

But yes, it's not a dipole and don't have that dipolar bass naturalness. I got a few clips here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJroKttulJs
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:50 PM   #18
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SL is obviously a guy who know what he is doing. He use ordinary components to create extraordinary results.
He has a very scientific approach and he doesn`t seem to know that op-amps and chip-amps is a no-no, I like that

Orion might very well be your last loudspeaker and I am sure SL will update the speaker along the way.

Build it as it is, and do not try to "improve" it because you think you know better

As DIY-audioholics we all too often focus on small details like the best input-cap or the latest super-duper resistor blessed by the golden ears.

Both SL and Dr. Geddes apparently use inexpensive electronics, but get outstanding results nevertheless.

Food for thought

JB
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Old 20th July 2008, 02:28 PM   #19
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cuibono

> I wonder about those highs though. I read someone else have a similar complaint, but many people haven't.

It would depend on how extended your upper range hearing is. If you are having a Honeymoon, you may not be that old . .
I can't hear much beyond 12 kHz, and had no complaints about the Orion's extension, though (while still very good) I did think there could be *better treble.

(You mentioned the Peerless 810921. Also used in this finely crafted (box speaker) the Elsinore http://www.customanalogue.com/elsino...ore_index.htm, where the designer dropped another tweeter and changed his XO to accommodate the 810921).

> I'd like to build something like the Aethers (dipole mids, BR bass)

The main benefit of dipoles is up to the Schroeder frequency.
Per SL http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm - where there's more detail:

Floor area Schroeder Hz - room
ft2 Lively dead
180 200 141
266 168 118
400 140 100

Below the Schroeder frequency, undesirable room modes can dominate. So if you "skip" dipole somewhere in the frequency range, the bass is not the best range, sonically. (Cost wise, yes)

Cheers
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Old 20th July 2008, 03:21 PM   #20
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by critofur
For those of us who are currently poor - is there hope of coming up with a design that compares to the Orions, except much cheaper?

I'd like to build something like the Aethers, (dipole mids, BR bass) with Peerless Nomex mids and Seas ~ $40 tweeters, in two flavors: 1) passive crossover, 2) use the PC as crossover and bi or tri-amp...

I also noticed the (on Zaph's pages) Aurum Cantus woofer he tested looks impressive, but not used by DIYers?

EDIT: I might also build some Plutos, after seeing your enthusiasm for them, how important is it doing them active, could passive be as good?
I figure, if I just build the Orions now, I would save tons of money over the next 15 years not building other speakers

Unfortunately, the Orions are designed (almost) without compromise - hence it uses 10 drivers, each costing $200, and needs 8+ channels of amplification (at $2000+). It seems possible that there are some newer, better drivers which cost less, see my posts above. This could save about $600 on drivers. These are the mid/high only - I haven't found any good alternative to the XLS subwoofers, besides the XXLS. One would need 4 of them, and at $200 each, that is a big chunk of change. The other largest cost is the amplification - the ATI SL uses costs $2000 - but we are a creative bunch, eh? I'd guess 8*50W could be done for under $800 with chipamps. Personally, I'd try and make a modular version of one of Nelson Pass' amps, if possible. It has been my intention to use the computer for XO, but it has some issues (I'm using it in my current 2 way OB).

The plutos are special speakers - they are very very smooth sounding. SL has changed the woofer driver since I built mine, and moved the f3 from 60hz to 40hz, which is a big improvement, in my opinion. I'd postulate that compared to any other 2-way speaker, the Plutos would hold their own. I have reservations about them, but that is only comparing the to other larger, more complex and expensive speakers...

Where did you see the Aurum Cantis on Zaphs site?
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