Filling the gap -- Tone Tubby ?

[Sjef]

After playing around for several years with 8" wide range driver with 15" woofers I think it's time to try something different. Weel not entirely different but the problem is that nomaater what 15" driver I used there is always some gap left behind between the woofer and the widerange driver. I'm using the Phy-Hp 8" driver on a moderatly small baffle. I have tried bigger baffles but in my case and in my room it always sounded better in the higher range on a smaller baffle, currently 45 cm wide and 90 cm high. Unfortunatly there is a drop off in the response witch starts at about 300Hz downwards. I can eq this response back in but just a little before it starts blurring the mids and begins to sound like a boxed speaker .

So far I have found no 15" driver wich is capable of playing up to 300Hz without blurring the lower midrange. I have tried several JBL's, the Hawthorne Augie's, the eminence Alpha 15A, Electro Voice EVM15B among others, While the JBL's are still the best in the lower range they are all a bit blurred when rossing higher then 80 to 100 Hz. I did not like the Alpha and the Electro Voice. I have read a lot of statements that driver quality on open baffle in the lower range does not matter, but believe me, it does and it's not only the Qts that matters.

The compromise I have made is to eq the Phy a little up to 150Hz and let the woofer play to 150Hz with 48db/oct crossovers. This way the colourations from both the woofer and te midrange are acceptable. All in all the system can sound very good but after listening to it for a long time now I start noticing the colouration due to the unnatural filling of the gap between the drivers more over.

So my Idea is this, just add another low-mid loudspeaker to the system and let it play along with the Phy up to 300Hz, sort of 2.5way design with added subwoofer. I could buy some extra Phy's but I think it can be better than that. Adding two of the 12" Phy's is a better option I guess except for the price of them.

So I'm looking for a good 12" driver wich can fill the gap. I have read some very good things on the Tone Tubby Alnico 12" drivers so I wondered if anyone has any experience with them in combination with a 8" driver like the Visaton B200, The various Supravoxes or even the Phy ?

How low can they really go on a 45 cm baffle, close to the floor, maybe with added wings ?

Wich one to choose, the 8 Ohm or the 16 Ohm version ?

[Saurav]

Not sure if this really helps... it's somewhat similar to what you're trying to do, I think:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...83/vsac_2.html

I heard that at VSAC, and it sounded excellent. That's a Lowther and a 12" Alnico Tone Tubby. Series 1st order XO @ 200Hz, if I remember right. The room had a sub, but I don't remember where he said that was crossed in at.

More descriptions:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/vsac_2008/

[Sjef]

Thanks for the link, that's indeed something I had in mind as well. My current baffle is a little smaller than this one but nice to see that it can work. Have you got any idea if it was the 16 or the 8 Ohm version used. I'm a bit in doubt between the two. The 16 Ohm has a sensitivity of around 94 db/2.83V while the 8 Ohm version is said to be 98 dB/2.83V. My Phy's are around 93dB/2.83V and I don't know how much sensitivity I will loose when crossing the Tone Tybby at around 200 to 300 Hz. that is about right in their open baffle fall-off response.

Since I'm using an active three-way crossover I will have to cross the Tone Tubby or any other good 12" driver passivly with the Phy's. The idea is to let them play together over a range from hopefully 70Hz to around 250-300Hz, just let the Phy play full range and let the TT's play along with a series inductor. Anyone tried such a setup ? Any advice on sensitivity matching ?

[Saurav]

Have you got any idea if it was the 16 or the 8 Ohm version used.

Sorry, I don't. These drivers weren't really on my radar at the time, so I didn't know about the different versions.

[Sjef]

That's understandable, but thanks anyway

[ttan98]

I read your input on the RCF H100 horn, I found this horn to sound good even though it is a little big, and not in the caliber of waveguide.

As far as 12" woofer is concern try a look at this site,

http://aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=7#

the AE speakers seem to get good reviews. However a little expensive for me.

I am looking at 10" or 12 " woofer in an vented cabinet, have have any experience with Beyma SM110/N or Ciare 12.00NdW1?

[xecluded]

This person here at audiocircle use 12" tonetubby with lowther:

Using ToneTubby 12"

[ScottG]

Your best bet will likely be another Phy driver.. but for a LOT less money consider the Supravox 285 with a bit of resistance.

One thing you do NOT want is fs to be very low.. and of course as a result you do NOT want a particularly extended low freq. response as a dipole.

[TerryO]

Originally posted by Saurav


Sorry, I don't. These drivers weren't really on my radar at the time, so I didn't know about the different versions.

Hi All,

I thought that they were 16 ohm, but just to make sure that I wasn't senile, I just sent an e-mail to Jon Ver Halen at Lowther-America.

Here's his reply:

I used a 16 ohm Tone Tubby and a 16 ohm Lowther PM6A. Both have 96 db efficiency, allowing a simple series crossover without any resistors.

Jon Ver Halen

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
TerryO