snoopy
If you have a very revealing system just try it. It costs very little to try.Get some solid core copper e.g out of household electrical cable and put about 5 coils tightly around each speaker cable. Or even just around the interconnects. Please note to show up the differences significantly you must be in possession of a high end 'revealing system'.
Later you can try thin or thick core, and also choose bwteen silver or copper and still notice differences between them as well. Indeed if your tv's reception is poor try doing the same for the signal and electrical cable supply to your tv, less predictable though
There already exist commercial products I believe which are sold as cable jackets. You just wrap the jacket around the cable.
If you have a very revealing system just try it. It costs very little to try.Get some solid core copper e.g out of household electrical cable and put about 5 coils tightly around each speaker cable. Or even just around the interconnects. Please note to show up the differences significantly you must be in possession of a high end 'revealing system'.
Later you can try thin or thick core, and also choose bwteen silver or copper and still notice differences between them as well. Indeed if your tv's reception is poor try doing the same for the signal and electrical cable supply to your tv, less predictable though
There already exist commercial products I believe which are sold as cable jackets. You just wrap the jacket around the cable.
audiojoy said:
I'm just trying to visualize this. You mean you wind a few turns of copper around a bit of speaker cable connected at the the speaker end ?? Does the copper have to be insulated or is it bare copper wire ??
Even if for argument sake it did make a difference why would you do it anyway ?? I can't see how it would improve anything !!
Hi all
the winding can be done anywhere along the length of the cable (interconnect or speaker). Bare wire in my experience has the most profound benefit. You take a length of bare wire and yes just tightly wrap it around the interconnect or speaker cable . No ferrrites no nothing else. You can leave a gap of mm's or even a cm between winding, this does not tend to be such an important factor.
Why would you do it??
It was an argument i used to show to you how little changes can make big differences. However this particular tweak actually improves clarity separation and tone but the number of windings used, wire material and thickness of wire all make a different sonic signature.
In my previous set up using avantgarde duo's, 4 windings improved clarity/ bass control. When I got to a coil of 10 windings the sound started to become smothered in the lower frequencies.
Have fun. I think i will use this thread as the patent.
the winding can be done anywhere along the length of the cable (interconnect or speaker). Bare wire in my experience has the most profound benefit. You take a length of bare wire and yes just tightly wrap it around the interconnect or speaker cable . No ferrrites no nothing else. You can leave a gap of mm's or even a cm between winding, this does not tend to be such an important factor.
Why would you do it??
It was an argument i used to show to you how little changes can make big differences. However this particular tweak actually improves clarity separation and tone but the number of windings used, wire material and thickness of wire all make a different sonic signature.
In my previous set up using avantgarde duo's, 4 windings improved clarity/ bass control. When I got to a coil of 10 windings the sound started to become smothered in the lower frequencies.
Have fun. I think i will use this thread as the patent.
audiojoy said:
You need to present it to James Randi and see if you can win the million dollar challenge
audiojoy said:
Like I said you need to do double blind testing before you can make these extraordinary claims not matter how good your system is.
Better still if you claim it makes so much difference then you should be able to measure the differences with suitable test equipment.
Snoopy if you have a revealing system, why dont you just give it a go, why would you need me to prove it when you can prove or disprove it yourself. I only inform the public of what I find and hear. I give this information for free as a favour to my fellow enthusiasts, I have no intention of fooling anyone around. I am 100% certain in my findings and have been listening to hifi for over 25 years with a very experienced ear and with local enthusiasts who have witnessed the changes I have described.
Anyhow, why dont you email me for a full discussion this thread is meant to be about the Yamaha NS1000 crossover .
Luke
Anyhow, why dont you email me for a full discussion this thread is meant to be about the Yamaha NS1000 crossover .
Luke
crossover improvement!
I wish you good luck with your patent, but every improvement should have any theoretical explanation and support.
I recommend to see what passive crossovers is using "Dynaudio" speakers, one of the best ever made for me, and there is a lot of thing to learn about crossover improvement specially the coils in the filters, everything for "the skin effect" which is very important.
I wish you good luck with your patent, but every improvement should have any theoretical explanation and support.
I recommend to see what passive crossovers is using "Dynaudio" speakers, one of the best ever made for me, and there is a lot of thing to learn about crossover improvement specially the coils in the filters, everything for "the skin effect" which is very important.
thanks Zoran
I am about to build my own inductors using nickel core and various other materials with copper or silver windings. Please remember I am no electronics specialist. My work to me is nothing more than a black art, if the more experienced can find an explanation please do so. My only concern is the final outcome.
I am about to build my own inductors using nickel core and various other materials with copper or silver windings. Please remember I am no electronics specialist. My work to me is nothing more than a black art, if the more experienced can find an explanation please do so. My only concern is the final outcome.
audiojoy said:
snoopy said:
snoopy said:
This subjective / objective theme is going on forever in the audio world.
There are two groups:
One group is hobbyists with lots of zest and no engineering practices. Very willing to substitute and learn by stabbing in the dark no matter the costs. There is a very big danger of mist and gullibility IF that group is falling prey of gold diggers.
The other group is the engineering group. This group has a map and a compass: Logic & science. Tends to prove every increment with solid data. Looks for concrete universal proof. Many times feels compelled to warn against ''voodoo'' so to not see the audio hobby getting derailed in a mystic world and becoming a joke to the outsiders.
If I stand and think a little I can see that there is just a pitfall and not a real problem between groups.
The first group must not claim. Only report. Be the scouts. If it claims , war starts. Most likely the first group will lose such a war to the second group. Because anecdotal data has a really big circle so to prove having grounds or not. Many times its wishful thinking. Audiojoy never claimed, just reported. Has nothing to gain, sells nothing. Pure hobbyists have my respect. And I want their findings.
The second group must watch the first group and see if it can organize and investigate the reports looking for some pattern, so the good findings can be integrated controllably in to the hobby knowledge database and be repeatable for all.
If the first group wasn't scouting we would never have looked into capacitors details, vibrational implications, return of the audio valve, full range, horns, etc. Some excellent stuff has been made by both groups. First group made Feastrex. Second group made Summa. The difference is that Feastrex isn't repeatable if the man who does it stops. Summa is advancing common knowledge and can be modeled.
So I try to be part of the second ''efficient & economic'' group. But I respect the pure members of the first group, which is the soul and voyager of the hobby. I always keep an eye to their reports if having honest origins.
I want my scope, but not to listen with it, in other words.
Thank you Salas, I will keep searching and hope that others can benefit from my findings as i can from theirs and enjoy this rather special hobby of ours.
There is a magical feeling at being able to recreate a musical event, with all the connected emotions, in your very own room, at a time and a mood convenient to you.
Luke
Ps I think Snoopy must be just having some fun with me
There is a magical feeling at being able to recreate a musical event, with all the connected emotions, in your very own room, at a time and a mood convenient to you.
Luke
Ps I think Snoopy must be just having some fun with me
audiojoy said:
No I'm being serious. Besides when you say it's about recreating the musical event I take it that when you listen to a recording that you were there at the actual live performance or in the studio when the recording engineer was making the mix so you know exactly how it should sound ??
If not, then how can you make any objective comparison when you don't know what the original performance sounded like which also includes the effects of the acoustic environment it was made in ??
Also no amount of twisting a wire around a bit speaker cable is going to make up for the deficiencies in the loudspeaker it drives. When you have found away of removing these deficiencies please verify it using a more objective means and then let the world know about it
salas said:
When the subjectivists decide to get serious about evaluating audio reproduction equipment and be honest with themselves as well as others and engage in properly conducted doubled blind testing of audio equipment then I will be all for the subjective evaluation of audio equipment. Until then what we have is a whole lot of extraordinary claims backed up by very little evidence with personal opinion making up the weight of the claim. This really doesn't advance the science of audio reproduction rather it focuses and expends effort on things that really don't make much difference if any difference at all.
Snoopy you are trying really hard here, but sorry no can entertain you.
One final thought.
We all listen to sound everyday of our lives in all different sorts of environments. We therefore should have an idea of what is closer to the truth than not. But I think the biggest point you miss, is the emotional impact of the music which is often more important than recreating the actual live feel of the event. There are objective criteria that can be used to measure the former to a certain extent but overall has a personal value which you may never be able to measure. I doubt very much your rather clinical/numerical notion of hifi would be able to get your big brain round that
One final thought.
We all listen to sound everyday of our lives in all different sorts of environments. We therefore should have an idea of what is closer to the truth than not. But I think the biggest point you miss, is the emotional impact of the music which is often more important than recreating the actual live feel of the event. There are objective criteria that can be used to measure the former to a certain extent but overall has a personal value which you may never be able to measure. I doubt very much your rather clinical/numerical notion of hifi would be able to get your big brain round that
audiojoy said:
I'm not trying to be hard but sensible. Common sense should always prevail
As the late cosmologist Carl Sagan once said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Also when people say you can only hear something but can't actually measure something then this is a fallacious argument i.e., the fallacy of special pleading. To say you can't measure something, first you have to prove that you can't measure it, which you have failed to do so, and by the sounds of things you have made no attempt to measure anything which begs the question of how can you claim that you can't measure it ??
Let's get back to crossovers, shall we?