This thread is started as a continuation of a previous one regarding the effects demonstrated by changing the capacitors in the yamaha 1000's crossover.
I have now very crudely removed the crossovers and made them external and I have changed every capacitor with modern day non-electrolytics ensuring exact capacitance is copied.
The results were stunning! Now I thought the Yams were superb speakers with the speed and transparency of my stacked quads. However! With the above changes this is what I get with minimal burn in time mind! The volume output goes up significantly ???about 30% for the same volume position.
Increased detail and air around the musicians. For example in terms of detail, well known studio tracks now clearly demonstrate stunningly the background studio noises. In term of music,cymbals have more shimmer and decay. The complex harmonies that make up a piano note are more audibly felt. Voices gain body and tonal WARMTH. The midrange becomes less recessed and far more prominent. The realism is in fact enhanced further than before, and trust me in stock state the Yams are one of the best i have come across.
Bass is clearer deeper and more detailed.
Separation of complex multi instrument tracks are suddenly clearer and more easily followed.
During the conversions I initially did only one speaker first. I was then able to compare a mono track between the tweaked and stock speakers. It was IMMEDIATELY apparent by jumping from one speaker to the other that the tweaked version was clearer warmer and had noticeably deeper bass.
Now I can only conclude one of three things
1) the original caps may have been knackered
2)externalising the crossover takes away those magnetic and sound pressure fields that may affect them
3)the original caps were of a crap quality.
Then what if I built silver inductors? or changed the caps to ultra expensive audionote copper? Or upgraded the internal cabling to one of the well respected manufacturers e.g audio note ansp??
Exciting or what.
My previous speaker experiences in chronological order are
quad esl57 stacked
spendor bc1
avantgarde duo
audio physic avanti
harbeth 30 and 40
rogers ls3.5a
etc etc
the speakers are being used with the following set up
pink triangle dacapo and transport
jadis jps2 pre
audio note 300b silver signature monoblocks
audio note silver cabling throughout
I have now very crudely removed the crossovers and made them external and I have changed every capacitor with modern day non-electrolytics ensuring exact capacitance is copied.
The results were stunning! Now I thought the Yams were superb speakers with the speed and transparency of my stacked quads. However! With the above changes this is what I get with minimal burn in time mind! The volume output goes up significantly ???about 30% for the same volume position.
Increased detail and air around the musicians. For example in terms of detail, well known studio tracks now clearly demonstrate stunningly the background studio noises. In term of music,cymbals have more shimmer and decay. The complex harmonies that make up a piano note are more audibly felt. Voices gain body and tonal WARMTH. The midrange becomes less recessed and far more prominent. The realism is in fact enhanced further than before, and trust me in stock state the Yams are one of the best i have come across.
Bass is clearer deeper and more detailed.
Separation of complex multi instrument tracks are suddenly clearer and more easily followed.
During the conversions I initially did only one speaker first. I was then able to compare a mono track between the tweaked and stock speakers. It was IMMEDIATELY apparent by jumping from one speaker to the other that the tweaked version was clearer warmer and had noticeably deeper bass.
Now I can only conclude one of three things
1) the original caps may have been knackered
2)externalising the crossover takes away those magnetic and sound pressure fields that may affect them
3)the original caps were of a crap quality.
Then what if I built silver inductors? or changed the caps to ultra expensive audionote copper? Or upgraded the internal cabling to one of the well respected manufacturers e.g audio note ansp??
Exciting or what.
My previous speaker experiences in chronological order are
quad esl57 stacked
spendor bc1
avantgarde duo
audio physic avanti
harbeth 30 and 40
rogers ls3.5a
etc etc
the speakers are being used with the following set up
pink triangle dacapo and transport
jadis jps2 pre
audio note 300b silver signature monoblocks
audio note silver cabling throughout
Dear Salas,
Absolutely not, but remember this is a subjective not objective assessment with many possible variables. Without objectivity and spl measurement i cannot confirm either way.
However i do remember from a previous thread on another forum a similar effect being heard when the crossover was tweaked. Here is that thread:-
http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17138&page=3
and I quote
'I gave it a blast and discovered a huge increase in clarity. The effect was like upgrading to a much more powerful amp. The sound was more open, dynamic and totally better in all ways.'
So perhaps it is increased dynamics that I am hearing that made me have to reduce the volume.
Luke
Absolutely not, but remember this is a subjective not objective assessment with many possible variables. Without objectivity and spl measurement i cannot confirm either way.
However i do remember from a previous thread on another forum a similar effect being heard when the crossover was tweaked. Here is that thread:-
http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17138&page=3
and I quote
'I gave it a blast and discovered a huge increase in clarity. The effect was like upgrading to a much more powerful amp. The sound was more open, dynamic and totally better in all ways.'
So perhaps it is increased dynamics that I am hearing that made me have to reduce the volume.
Luke
here is the photo just using ordinary electrical cable as connectors to the speakers and from the caps to the crossover. Long lengths of it as well!!
by the way the original caps were left in place in case i would need to reverse it, but they are cut off at their terminals from the circuit itself.
by the way the original caps were left in place in case i would need to reverse it, but they are cut off at their terminals from the circuit itself.
Attachments
audiojoy said:
I don't know if its the new clarity, dynamics, and psychoacoustics making impressions but to get +30% SPL by renewing with much better capacitors, it's impossible. The gains should be strictly in quality and not in quantity. It's just semantics I suppose. Congratulations on the improvements. Did you keep the level controls?
O.k Done some more fascinating mods.
I followed the above mentioned thread's finding of removing the woolly insulation pads.
Removing the three behind the woofer made a very very good improvement. Now it genuinely felt like there was literally nothing more than daylight between me and the musicians. The increased dynamics and detail were very eye opening with even better musicality (Timing and Rhythm and cohesion). Removing the pads from behind the tweeter and midrange was disastrous, reverberations had taken their toll and the sound became badly 'messed up' so I replaced them back where they belonged.
Next i obtained a pair of Mundorf air core pure copper 0.3mH inductors. I used them to replace the small magnetic ones in the tweeter circuit. My findings from this were very interesting indeed. Suddenly instruments and voices had more body with solidity in their sound staging and tonal warmth. BUT! their inner detail had gone, the presence and excitement had gone, even the emotion had gone. This is an unusual finding as normally enhancing tonal warmth has led to a much more realistic and tonally accurate sound in the past. Even increasing the tweeter output on the Yams did very little to correct this lack of inner detail/transparency.
The speaker is so darn revealing that even changing the cable from silver to copper on the crossover board where it goes a few inches from a component to the output speaker plug, made a big difference. This speaker, like the audio notes, like silver.
Is too much inner detail a sign of a lack of tonal warmth due to missing frequency spectrum's?? Does tonal warmth ordinarily mask some of this inner detail??? or is the presence of inner detail a true reflection of the accuracy of the recording at the time depicting the quality of microphones personnel positioning etc.. - as it just sounds so live and present?? Had there been a true imbalance in the frequency spectrum i might have said the former was true.
I have decided today i will go to my strange friend who works in darkness 360 days per year in the heart of London. He works in a warehouse the size of a football pitch The whole building is operated by himself and his one employee the goofy but friendly assistant who always opens the old Iron door then is never seen or heard from again. The whole warehouse has a PA system which constantly plays the sound of a steady heartbeat echoed throughout the building. A heartbeat so fixed in timing and rhythm that you would think it belonged to someone with a pacemaker. Was this a form of ??comfort, mothers womb and all that. But the Gem in this Surplus store is the rows upon rows full of reels upon reels of copper, silver wire, transformers etc etc. But his prized possession, and i do hope he is not reading this is his stockpiles of of nickel core mu-metal. Transformer laminations, toroids etc. In his customary manner, i pick one up I would like to purchase,he holds it between his right fore finger and thumb, flings it up against gravity a few cm, then lets it free fall and that leads to his pricing . Breath held I usually sign when a figure of a few pounds for a 8cm dia, 70% nickel mu metal toroid is priced. Never knew what to do with them before!!
So yes i am going to make my own inductor with pure silver wire and mumetal core. this week end. Hope the saturation, air gap dc resistance et al thingeys are not going to come out all wrong??
Luke
I followed the above mentioned thread's finding of removing the woolly insulation pads.
Removing the three behind the woofer made a very very good improvement. Now it genuinely felt like there was literally nothing more than daylight between me and the musicians. The increased dynamics and detail were very eye opening with even better musicality (Timing and Rhythm and cohesion). Removing the pads from behind the tweeter and midrange was disastrous, reverberations had taken their toll and the sound became badly 'messed up' so I replaced them back where they belonged.
Next i obtained a pair of Mundorf air core pure copper 0.3mH inductors. I used them to replace the small magnetic ones in the tweeter circuit. My findings from this were very interesting indeed. Suddenly instruments and voices had more body with solidity in their sound staging and tonal warmth. BUT! their inner detail had gone, the presence and excitement had gone, even the emotion had gone. This is an unusual finding as normally enhancing tonal warmth has led to a much more realistic and tonally accurate sound in the past. Even increasing the tweeter output on the Yams did very little to correct this lack of inner detail/transparency.
The speaker is so darn revealing that even changing the cable from silver to copper on the crossover board where it goes a few inches from a component to the output speaker plug, made a big difference. This speaker, like the audio notes, like silver.
Is too much inner detail a sign of a lack of tonal warmth due to missing frequency spectrum's?? Does tonal warmth ordinarily mask some of this inner detail??? or is the presence of inner detail a true reflection of the accuracy of the recording at the time depicting the quality of microphones personnel positioning etc.. - as it just sounds so live and present?? Had there been a true imbalance in the frequency spectrum i might have said the former was true.
I have decided today i will go to my strange friend who works in darkness 360 days per year in the heart of London. He works in a warehouse the size of a football pitch The whole building is operated by himself and his one employee the goofy but friendly assistant who always opens the old Iron door then is never seen or heard from again. The whole warehouse has a PA system which constantly plays the sound of a steady heartbeat echoed throughout the building. A heartbeat so fixed in timing and rhythm that you would think it belonged to someone with a pacemaker. Was this a form of ??comfort, mothers womb and all that. But the Gem in this Surplus store is the rows upon rows full of reels upon reels of copper, silver wire, transformers etc etc. But his prized possession, and i do hope he is not reading this is his stockpiles of of nickel core mu-metal. Transformer laminations, toroids etc. In his customary manner, i pick one up I would like to purchase,he holds it between his right fore finger and thumb, flings it up against gravity a few cm, then lets it free fall and that leads to his pricing . Breath held I usually sign when a figure of a few pounds for a 8cm dia, 70% nickel mu metal toroid is priced. Never knew what to do with them before!!
So yes i am going to make my own inductor with pure silver wire and mumetal core. this week end. Hope the saturation, air gap dc resistance et al thingeys are not going to come out all wrong??
Luke
Cannot think of any one component that has enthralled me as much as the Yam. I thought it could never get any more exciting than when i stacked my quads, But boy was I wrong.
If i were to put my finger on any one thing about the YAM it would be its ability to accurately depict any performance in time and space. What i would conclude as genuine time travel. Afterall,secretly that is what a lot of us are actually aiming for.
If i were to put my finger on any one thing about the YAM it would be its ability to accurately depict any performance in time and space. What i would conclude as genuine time travel. Afterall,secretly that is what a lot of us are actually aiming for.
audiojoy said:
Did you realize that the voice coils in your tweeters. midranges etc most likely use a few meters of very thin ordinary copper or aluminum wire. As well there are meters of ordinary aluminium foil in your capacitors, ordinary nichrome wire in resistors, ordinary copper wire in inductors etc, so does it really make sense that by changing a few inches of otherwise thick interconnect to silver should make such a dramatic difference ??
It is 100 % possible to get more spl level from the loudspeakers when remove old caps by new one specially if pld caps are electrolytic types, because during the long period of time they can dropped to zero capacity, this is my experience with some Jamo Professional 300 speakers and the midrange driver was dead but the reason was zero capacity of that"Bennic" elco cap I think it was 10 microfarads!!!
So with old elco caps you can distroy all frequency response of the speaker and sometimes "bad cap" can even disconect the driver from the signal!!!This will affect midrange and tweeter and anywhere where is the serial cap in the crossover!
So with old elco caps you can distroy all frequency response of the speaker and sometimes "bad cap" can even disconect the driver from the signal!!!This will affect midrange and tweeter and anywhere where is the serial cap in the crossover!
Yes Snoopy in a very revealing system, a few cm of cable change (not even thick cable) i was talking about .2mmx4 of pure silver wire made a DRAMATIC difference. I have known about this for many many years. I learnt long ago that in extremely revealing systems put a few turns of copper wire around one speaker cable, that is 4-5 cm long, altered the sound. The thicker the copper used to make these turns the warmer the sound got. I know it sounds unbelievable. Drop by and I would happily demonstrate this to you. I clearly demonstrated that changing one of the small inductors in the crossover totally revolutionised the sound and there is only a few feet of cable on that.Remember though, I am using £6k preamp and £6K power amp to drive the speakers which in themselves are extremely revealing.
audiojoy said:
I found that very hard to believe because like I said you still have large amounts of ordinary thin copper wire in the system and you are only changing a very small amount of it to a conductor that has not much better conductivity than copper itself.
No offense but I'd would only believe claims like this if you were willing to do proper double blind testing.
PS Why would you put copper wire around a speaker cable ??
zoranaudio said:
Don't apply one experience of a dead cap on another remote situation. If the old caps of the Yamaha are so leaky or dead has to be seen by measurement, not by assumption. The user never said that he had an originally faulty speaker. He just upgrades it. No data = no data. Making assumptions is a fault. There is no need to draw conclusions.