YAMAHA NS1000 crossover Tweaks - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th July 2008, 08:31 AM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: london
O.k Done some more fascinating mods.

I followed the above mentioned thread's finding of removing the woolly insulation pads.

Removing the three behind the woofer made a very very good improvement. Now it genuinely felt like there was literally nothing more than daylight between me and the musicians. The increased dynamics and detail were very eye opening with even better musicality (Timing and Rhythm and cohesion). Removing the pads from behind the tweeter and midrange was disastrous, reverberations had taken their toll and the sound became badly 'messed up' so I replaced them back where they belonged.

Next i obtained a pair of Mundorf air core pure copper 0.3mH inductors. I used them to replace the small magnetic ones in the tweeter circuit. My findings from this were very interesting indeed. Suddenly instruments and voices had more body with solidity in their sound staging and tonal warmth. BUT! their inner detail had gone, the presence and excitement had gone, even the emotion had gone. This is an unusual finding as normally enhancing tonal warmth has led to a much more realistic and tonally accurate sound in the past. Even increasing the tweeter output on the Yams did very little to correct this lack of inner detail/transparency.


The speaker is so darn revealing that even changing the cable from silver to copper on the crossover board where it goes a few inches from a component to the output speaker plug, made a big difference. This speaker, like the audio notes, like silver.

Is too much inner detail a sign of a lack of tonal warmth due to missing frequency spectrum's?? Does tonal warmth ordinarily mask some of this inner detail??? or is the presence of inner detail a true reflection of the accuracy of the recording at the time depicting the quality of microphones personnel positioning etc.. - as it just sounds so live and present?? Had there been a true imbalance in the frequency spectrum i might have said the former was true.


I have decided today i will go to my strange friend who works in darkness 360 days per year in the heart of London. He works in a warehouse the size of a football pitch The whole building is operated by himself and his one employee the goofy but friendly assistant who always opens the old Iron door then is never seen or heard from again. The whole warehouse has a PA system which constantly plays the sound of a steady heartbeat echoed throughout the building. A heartbeat so fixed in timing and rhythm that you would think it belonged to someone with a pacemaker. Was this a form of ??comfort, mothers womb and all that. But the Gem in this Surplus store is the rows upon rows full of reels upon reels of copper, silver wire, transformers etc etc. But his prized possession, and i do hope he is not reading this is his stockpiles of of nickel core mu-metal. Transformer laminations, toroids etc. In his customary manner, i pick one up I would like to purchase,he holds it between his right fore finger and thumb, flings it up against gravity a few cm, then lets it free fall and that leads to his pricing . Breath held I usually sign when a figure of a few pounds for a 8cm dia, 70% nickel mu metal toroid is priced. Never knew what to do with them before!!

So yes i am going to make my own inductor with pure silver wire and mumetal core. this week end. Hope the saturation, air gap dc resistance et al thingeys are not going to come out all wrong??



Luke
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2008, 10:45 AM   #12
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
diyAudio Chief Moderator
 
Salas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Athens-Greece
I think that your nickname is well chosen. You enjoy the hobby.

Good luck in that mysterious place. Fit for a great B movie script!
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2008, 02:46 PM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: london
Cannot think of any one component that has enthralled me as much as the Yam. I thought it could never get any more exciting than when i stacked my quads, But boy was I wrong.

If i were to put my finger on any one thing about the YAM it would be its ability to accurately depict any performance in time and space. What i would conclude as genuine time travel. Afterall,secretly that is what a lot of us are actually aiming for.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 04:48 AM   #14
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally posted by audiojoy
O.k Done some more fascinating mods.

The speaker is so darn revealing that even changing the cable from silver to copper on the crossover board where it goes a few inches from a component to the output speaker plug, made a big difference. This speaker, like the audio notes, like silver.
Did you realize that the voice coils in your tweeters. midranges etc most likely use a few meters of very thin ordinary copper or aluminum wire. As well there are meters of ordinary aluminium foil in your capacitors, ordinary nichrome wire in resistors, ordinary copper wire in inductors etc, so does it really make sense that by changing a few inches of otherwise thick interconnect to silver should make such a dramatic difference ??
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 06:42 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
zoranaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
It is 100 % possible to get more spl level from the loudspeakers when remove old caps by new one specially if pld caps are electrolytic types, because during the long period of time they can dropped to zero capacity, this is my experience with some Jamo Professional 300 speakers and the midrange driver was dead but the reason was zero capacity of that"Bennic" elco cap I think it was 10 microfarads!!!
So with old elco caps you can distroy all frequency response of the speaker and sometimes "bad cap" can even disconect the driver from the signal!!!This will affect midrange and tweeter and anywhere where is the serial cap in the crossover!
__________________
zaudio
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 09:08 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: london
Yes Snoopy in a very revealing system, a few cm of cable change (not even thick cable) i was talking about .2mmx4 of pure silver wire made a DRAMATIC difference. I have known about this for many many years. I learnt long ago that in extremely revealing systems put a few turns of copper wire around one speaker cable, that is 4-5 cm long, altered the sound. The thicker the copper used to make these turns the warmer the sound got. I know it sounds unbelievable. Drop by and I would happily demonstrate this to you. I clearly demonstrated that changing one of the small inductors in the crossover totally revolutionised the sound and there is only a few feet of cable on that.Remember though, I am using 6k preamp and 6K power amp to drive the speakers which in themselves are extremely revealing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 09:10 AM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: london
Zoran Audio thanks for that! I thought I was not hearing things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 09:23 AM   #18
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally posted by zoranaudio
It is 100 % possible to get more spl level from the loudspeakers when remove old caps by new one specially if pld caps are electrolytic types, because during the long period of time they can dropped to zero capacity, this is my experience with some Jamo Professional 300 speakers and the midrange driver was dead but the reason was zero capacity of that"Bennic" elco cap I think it was 10 microfarads!!!
So with old elco caps you can distroy all frequency response of the speaker and sometimes "bad cap" can even disconect the driver from the signal!!!This will affect midrange and tweeter and anywhere where is the serial cap in the crossover!
But surely you would measure them before replacing them ??
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 09:30 AM   #19
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally posted by audiojoy
Yes Snoopy in a very revealing system, a few cm of cable change (not even thick cable) i was talking about .2mmx4 of pure silver wire made a DRAMATIC difference. I have known about this for many many years. I learnt long ago that in extremely revealing systems put a few turns of copper wire around one speaker cable, that is 4-5 cm long, altered the sound. The thicker the copper used to make these turns the warmer the sound got. I know it sounds unbelievable. Drop by and I would happily demonstrate this to you. I clearly demonstrated that changing one of the small inductors in the crossover totally revolutionised the sound and there is only a few feet of cable on that.Remember though, I am using 6k preamp and 6K power amp to drive the speakers which in themselves are extremely revealing.
I found that very hard to believe because like I said you still have large amounts of ordinary thin copper wire in the system and you are only changing a very small amount of it to a conductor that has not much better conductivity than copper itself.

No offense but I'd would only believe claims like this if you were willing to do proper double blind testing.

PS Why would you put copper wire around a speaker cable ??
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 10:55 AM   #20
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
diyAudio Chief Moderator
 
Salas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Athens-Greece
Quote:
Originally posted by zoranaudio
It is 100 % possible to get more spl level from the loudspeakers when remove old caps by new one specially if pld caps are electrolytic types, because during the long period of time they can dropped to zero capacity, this is my experience with some Jamo Professional 300 speakers and the midrange driver was dead but the reason was zero capacity of that"Bennic" elco cap I think it was 10 microfarads!!!
So with old elco caps you can distroy all frequency response of the speaker and sometimes "bad cap" can even disconect the driver from the signal!!!This will affect midrange and tweeter and anywhere where is the serial cap in the crossover!
Don't apply one experience of a dead cap on another remote situation. If the old caps of the Yamaha are so leaky or dead has to be seen by measurement, not by assumption. The user never said that he had an originally faulty speaker. He just upgrades it. No data = no data. Making assumptions is a fault. There is no need to draw conclusions.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yamaha NS-8390 crossover frequencies - strange? ray_moth Multi-Way 2 10th April 2012 01:31 PM
Yamaha NS1000 parts and others Beachmountain Swap Meet 1 23rd April 2009 04:25 PM
yamaha ec-1 crossover audiomachines Solid State 1 27th January 2008 12:27 AM
Tweaks vs. insanity (yes, just another thread about tweaks; but there are some links) Rodeodave Everything Else 7 28th February 2007 04:05 AM
Crossover question (refurbing Yamaha PA cab) los_gatos Multi-Way 5 4th January 2004 07:23 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:59 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2