YAMAHA NS1000 crossover Tweaks

[snoopy]

Originally posted by zoranaudio
Snoopy!
The person who start this thread just wants to get more quality of normally good speakers, like they came out from the factory, and if you going to remake all, I mean on adding active xo and all other devices than , these speakers would not be Yamaha ns 1000 any more , but ?????Active.???Speakers!
the purpose is to improve only passive elements inside and keep originally look of speakers ant not making a building from a house!!!!
Active crossover for some other project, just a home made build.

I agree with you but adding bits of silver interconnect and silver wire inductors is really not going to make any difference. Just replace or upgrade the old parts and be done with it. Most of the performance of these speakers comes from the use of Beryllium dome midranges and tweeters not through some magic capacitor used in the crossover.

[audiojoy]

For those still interested here are some recent further findings on the YAM 1000.

The cables after the crossover include one for bass one for mid one for treble and one for neutral. Each has its own plug connector both on the speaker and the x-over box. This then allows each one to be individually changed to the cable of my fancy.

The Bass interconnect has proven to be of greatest fascination and appears to have one of the biggest impacts on the overall sound.
solid core versus multifilament, or shielded versus non shielded does not appear to show any particular patterns. I presume technically the cable is having a profound effect on electrical parameters such as inductance. Every one is praising the berryllium drivers yet what i have just experienced may shock some of you as it did me.

Most of this thread has been consumed by talk of active versus passive, yet in my humble little world I am seeing genuinely large changes i.e Changing the entire characteristics of the sound by changing just the bass drivers post x-over speaker cable interconnect of about three feet in length!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here are the findings

Naim mulitstranded copper speaker cable _ warm sound vocals have more body and warmth to them perhaps a little over done. Not exciting in terms of sound staging and detail or presence factor.

Audio Note SPx - as soon as this one went in the ENTIRE sound spectrum seemed to snap into focus, guitars felt like individual wires were being plucked. There was clarity to the complex tones in a strummed guitar. Voices had more air around them and took up an almost spooky holographic presence.

NVA cables. Leaner sounding almost equal clarity to the audio note but robbed the notes a little from their natural decay, leaving you feeling a little short changed.

DIY 99.99% silver with a silver braid multistranded litz
clarity once again improved but sounding overall more lean and a little more artificial sounding.

VAL cables , multistranded silver on copper and heavily insulated both mechanically and electrically. When positioned before the x-over this was the best cable out of the lot but the minute it was used to feed the bass driver, the whole sound collapsed and became almost confused sounding . I had great difficulty following and understanding the chords of the guitars!!!!

Who said changing passive components was futile??????. The bass unit seems to contribute to the entire sound clarity, air and tonal balance, potentially a far greater influence than the berrylium drivers. Although no doubt there is a synergy going on here.

I have not mentioned the lowest bass notes simply because i was not convinced that there was as much change to these notes as there was to the rest of the sound spectrum!!!!!!!

[snoopy]

Originally posted by audiojoy
For those still interested here are some recent further findings on the YAM 1000.

The cables after the crossover include one for bass one for mid one for treble and one for neutral. Each has its own plug connector both on the speaker and the x-over box. This then allows each one to be individually changed to the cable of my fancy.

The Bass interconnect has proven to be of greatest fascination and appears to have one of the biggest impacts on the overall sound.
solid core versus multifilament, or shielded versus non shielded does not appear to show any particular patterns. I presume technically the cable is having a profound effect on electrical parameters such as inductance. Every one is praising the berryllium drivers yet what i have just experienced may shock some of you as it did me.

How can such a short piece of cable have such a dramatic effect on the inductance when the total inductance will be dominated by the parasitic inductance of the voice coil which happens to be quite non linear ??

When you did these changes did you manage to evaluate it using double blind testing or did you make the same cardinal mistake that most audio gurus do and were actually quite aware of what you were testing ??

Also if you think that such a short piece of interconnect cable makes such a dramatic difference are you willing to go the next step and and make sure that the thin wire used on the voice coils of these speakers are rewound with similar materials as the interconnect ?? If not why not ??

[audiojoy]

Dear Snoopy I am not amazed that you are unable to believe or even recognize the differences i am speaking of. You need to be educated on the set up of hifi systems and how to get the best from them from a listening point. You may also potentially have poor sensory perception when it comes to sound, because in double blind studies with two friends these changes were day and night.

i have had numerous audiophile and recording studio friends (as I live close to the BBC and a lot of my clients are studio engineers)read your ' listening and comparison'comments and are totally shocked by your lack of experience in hearing differences in sound produced by a good hifi system by simply changing a single interconnect cable.

You seem to enjoy the freedom you have been given on this forum to make remarks that few others will agree with. No doubt you will do your usual fun game of breaking down every comment I make and quote, followed by your usual unfounded negative and derogatory comments.

All I can say is that you are letting yourself down by denying such a well known finding.


Luke

[dnewma04]

I don't think that most people understand what a double blind test really is, and under the conditions of a double blind test, they are biased towards null. What you heard with your friends was very likely highly biased and far from a double blind format. That said, it seems apparent that Snoopy's role in just about every thread is to be an obnoxious bore. Ignore the troll, you have nothing to answer to him for. We are highly impressionable creatures and if we hear differences that are minute or not even physically there, but without them we can't enjoy our system, it seems foolish to try to avoid them if they better our perception of the sound. The best way to handle people like snoopy is to either ignore him or just conclude that he is right but rather than being a miserable wretch, you choose to enjoy and play with your system.

[cdwitmer]

Guys, FWIW here is my take on this sort of thing:

There are large numbers of people on both sides of this issue -- folks who insist that there is no rational reason why such a seemingly trivial change should make a significant difference (and that it is impossible to measure any significant difference), versus folks who insist that significant differences are indeed audible, at least in some cases. Folks in the former group might suggest doing a double blind A/B test with a group of veteran audiophile listeners, expecting that under such controlled conditions no significant differences would be consistently noted, etc. We've all been around this bush dozens of times in different aspects of audio, and it seems to me that people rarely move from one group to the other, although there are probably degrees of fervence with which the various opinions are held in each group. It seems to me that it is not worth "getting on each other's case" over this sort of thing . . . for me, if people are deriving delight from their audio passion/pastime, that's what counts. Different folks will be pressing their respective pleasure buttons in different ways, and that's okay.

-- Chris

P.S. Edit: dnewma04 posted while I was composing my own post and I just wanted to clarify that my reference to "double blind test" is not referring to anyone in particular.

[snoopy]

Originally posted by audiojoy
Dear Snoopy I am not amazed that you are unable to believe or even recognize the differences i am speaking of. You need to be educated on the set up of hifi systems and how to get the best from them from a listening point. You may also potentially have poor sensory perception when it comes to sound, because in double blind studies with two friends these changes were day and night.

i have had numerous audiophile and recording studio friends (as I live close to the BBC and a lot of my clients are studio engineers)read your ' listening and comparison'comments and are totally shocked by your lack of experience in hearing differences in sound produced by a good hifi system by simply changing a single interconnect cable.

You seem to enjoy the freedom you have been given on this forum to make remarks that few others will agree with. No doubt you will do your usual fun game of breaking down every comment I make and quote, followed by your usual unfounded negative and derogatory comments.

All I can say is that you are letting yourself down by denying such a well known finding.

Luke

Why should I not have the freedom to make comments which disagree with the majority ??

Your "well known finding" appears to be nothing more than your own biased opinions. The reason why you disagree with me is because you don't have a basic understanding of electrical circuit theory. To make up for this you resort to fallacies and claims that only paranormal science can explain.

If you and your friends claim that you can hear dramatic differences by replacing a short piece of interconnect then why don't you take up the Pepsi challenge and submit your modifications to proper scientific scrutiny which includes double blind testing If it is proven that this mod dramatically improves your speakers then most likely it will improve other speakers for the same reasoning. Somehow I just can't imagine everyone unscrewing their speakers in order to make this mod

[snoopy]

Originally posted by dnewma04
I don't think that most people understand what a double blind test really is, and under the conditions of a double blind test, they are biased towards null. What you heard with your friends was very likely highly biased and far from a double blind format. That said, it seems apparent that Snoopy's role in just about every thread is to be an obnoxious bore. Ignore the troll, you have nothing to answer to him for. We are highly impressionable creatures and if we hear differences that are minute or not even physically there, but without them we can't enjoy our system, it seems foolish to try to avoid them if they better our perception of the sound. The best way to handle people like snoopy is to either ignore him or just conclude that he is right but rather than being a miserable wretch, you choose to enjoy and play with your system.

No one is not saying to experiment and enjoy your system but please don't make extraordinary claims without backing them up with evidence. It's OK to say something is your opinion but to infer a generalization that is set in stone and that applies to everyone else requires a bit more substantiation than a few other people's casual opinions

[snoopy]

Originally posted by cdwitmer
Guys, FWIW here is my take on this sort of thing:

There are large numbers of people on both sides of this issue -- folks who insist that there is no rational reason why such a seemingly trivial change should make a significant difference (and that it is impossible to measure any significant difference), versus folks who insist that significant differences are indeed audible, at least in some cases. Folks in the former group might suggest doing a double blind A/B test with a group of veteran audiophile listeners, expecting that under such controlled conditions no significant differences would be consistently noted, etc. We've all been around this bush dozens of times in different aspects of audio, and it seems to me that people rarely move from one group to the other, although there are probably degrees of fervence with which the various opinions are held in each group. It seems to me that it is not worth "getting on each other's case" over this sort of thing . . . for me, if people are deriving delight from their audio passion/pastime, that's what counts. Different folks will be pressing their respective pleasure buttons in different ways, and that's okay.

-- Chris

It's an easy issue to solve. Just ask the people who make the extraordinary claims to take the audio equivalent of the Pepsi challenge and 99 times out of 100 they will decline and will offer you a whole lot of rationalizations as to why they shouldn't take the challenge

[Andre Visser]

Originally posted by snoopy
Your "well known finding" appears to be nothing more than your own biased opinions. The reason why you disagree with me is because you don't have a basic understanding of electrical circuit theory. To make up for this you resort to fallacies and claims that only paranormal science can explain.

Many years ago when I had a "basic understanding of electrical circuit theory", I was also laughing at cable differences. Luckily I've learned since that things are normally more complicated and that cables are an important part of a good system.