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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 7th July 2008, 09:20 PM   #21
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjpoes
I have the ability to design my own crossovers. While its a newly acquired skill that I am still honing, I have had success on 5 projects so far, and continue to hone this skill. My hope with this thread was to get some insight into how I might design my next project.

Much better.

Treble:

http://www.raalribbon.com/products_flatfoil_140-15.htm

Midrange (4 drivers per loudspeaker):

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=264-848

Bass driver (large vented enclosure 6 cu-ft 25 Hz tunning w/ 6 inch vent):

http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/haut_...rs/285_GMF.htm

(top-down):MMMMTW

Two-box system. One box for the midbass. A smaller adjustable box for the mid-and-tweeter.

Avg. eff. 91 db 8 ohms.
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Old 7th July 2008, 09:46 PM   #22
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Excuse me, but isnt that Supravox 285 GMF a 99db midwoofer ?

And MMMMTW configured ... now I am really confused ?

Very special choise of drivers ... is that something thats been proven ?


If you want good soundstage work with a simple straight forward design with well behaved drivers making simple "acoustical" 12db LR filters possible
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Old 7th July 2008, 09:51 PM   #23
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tinitus
Excuse me, but isnt that Supravox 285 GMF a 99db midwoofer ?

It is indeed. Try modeling as mentioned with an inductor in series for a target freq. around 50 Hz -3db (parallel 2.5 design with the .5 as the woofer). Don't forget Baffle step loss in your calculation.
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Old 7th July 2008, 09:57 PM   #24
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Doesnt sound like there is much "room" for adjustments in that design

Sounds like you will use those small Tangband mids running "fullrange" with no highpass xo ... sure they wont distort when it gets hot
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Old 7th July 2008, 10:07 PM   #25
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tinitus


And MMMMTW configured ... now I am really confused ?

Very special choise of drivers ... is that something thats been proven ?
Its an idea I've been "toying with". Frankly though I don't have the time or even the facilities (..at this point most of its packed up for a big move/lifestyle change).

The MMMM line is about 3db more efficient in a series-parallel config. + you have some additional gain for that size driver between 400 Hz and 2 kHz (..which should compensate nicely for the drivers inherent slight "gain" above 2kHz). The 4 driver config. will also reduce excursion and as a result non-linear distortion. The net spl result should be about 91 db (1watt 1 meter).

The tweeter will either need a shelving filter or listened to about 50 degrees off-axis (which sounds absurd but works well in the near field and gives an enormous sound-field with fewer side wall disturbances).

It is a very specialized choice in drivers.. but its "what I do".
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Old 7th July 2008, 10:17 PM   #26
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tinitus
Doesnt sound like there is much "room" for adjustments in that design

Sounds like you will use those small Tangband mids running "fullrange" with no highpass xo ... sure they wont distort when it gets hot

There should be a fair amount of "room" with the crossover - all of the drivers are relatively broadband.. the exception is the tweeter at the lowest freq.s in its bandpass. Combing will only start to begin above 3kHz for the mid.s to any significant degree, and even then it will be minimal.

The Tangbands should be fine fullrange with proper loading and normal in-room averages (including the occasional 105+ db peaks). Remember there are 4 of them and they will only see a modest portion of the amplifier's power.
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Old 7th July 2008, 11:38 PM   #27
pjpoes is offline pjpoes  United States
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Gah!!!! That is bigger than I would like. I mean, I know I was just talking about the Everest, but good I don't know about woofers in a 6 cubic foot enclosure.

Those Tangband drivers are great aren't they. I just picked up a pair to measure, and I'm mighty impressed. They make a great midrange, and can work over a wide enough range to give huge flexibility in crossover points.

I have not heard the Raal tweeter, but I hear really good things about the ribbon tweeter. I have heard they have wider dispersion than most ribbons, and overload very nicely.

Why the Supravox midwoofer? I have no experience with them, they are pretty expensive for what they are. Have you used them with good results? I understand they make good drivers from a quality standpoint, they suffer some of the same issues that other lightweight coned high efficiency drivers do, but seem better than most in some regards.
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Old 7th July 2008, 11:46 PM   #28
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Can I just ask what issues lightweight coned high efficiency drivers suffer from ?

Rob.
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Old 8th July 2008, 04:06 AM   #29
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Well the biggest issue is that they require a larger cabinet to play as low. While not a big deal in Pro Audio where enclosure size isn't as important, and efficiency is far more important, it is important in Home audio. Well for some anyway.

As for my other personal issues, I think the response is generally more ragid than on comparably priced highend drivers from the likes of Scan-speak or Seas.
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Old 8th July 2008, 05:11 AM   #30
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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Default Re: Getting good Efficiency and smooth response, to 3-4-5-way, or not

Quote:
Originally posted by pjpoes
...

I've heard speakers from Revel, Focal, and Wilson Audio, which were all either complex 3-way or 4-way designs, and all offered great sound IMO. This leads me to want to try my hand at a more complex setup.
If the ultimate goal is that kind of complexity, I really don't know how you can get around the size problem.

And about the 'flatness' of the frequency responses, I guess those datasheets from "pro" brands are much more honest while those of the "hi end" brands are whitewashed a lot.

Finally, please try to compare sizes and performances of:

1) whatever 'hi end' loudspeakers of 3, 4, 5... ways.
2) properly setup of 2 way 'pro' stuff with quality 1" CD and midbass of 12" or 15"
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