eton 12"hexacone to manger crossover

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hi all i will recieve the following drivers in about a week and need some help with the crossovers ,eton 12"hexacone x2 and manger transducers x2 the etons will be run active and the mangers will be run off a passive crossover the crossover point will be between 140 to 170hz as advised on the manger home site .the speakers will be setup in the same cab style as the overkill audio speakers .can i just use a simple first order or are there other things i need to consider both the etons and the mangers are 91db and 8 ohm .
 
A cabinet size adjusted baffle step compensation will need to be included in your crossover. BSC can sometimes be acomplished by using different slopes for the bass and midrange, with some overlap between the bass/mid crossover frequencies.

The Manger has a maximum excursion of +/- 3.5mm, so a low crossover frequency can limit max SPL.

In the K&T article, the woofer has a second order and the Manger a fourth order slope at 200Hz

According to the Manger data sheets, the combination of 1st order HP at 370 Hz and 3rd order low pass at 100 also shows near-ideal step response behavior.
 

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thanks guys your answers are very helpfull . i was planing to cross the eton over to the manger at around 180 to 200hz if possible .im hoping to have the manger just doing the mid and high frequencys with the eton handling everything else .what things should i consider before choosing my crossover slope .i could use a simple first order but i cant help but think a steeper slope would be better such as a third order 18db. any thoughts ?also if the impeadence of the eton and mnanger are nice and flat at the crossover point do i still need a notch filter
 
hi all im considering a active plate amp(subwoofer) for lowpass at 180hz to a passive lr 3rd order highpass at 180hz .the drivers will be time aligned by setting the top cab(manger) back from the bottom cab (eton ) so the voice coils line up .the bass cab will be sealed at around 50l the top cab will also be sealed at around 14 litres it will be a spere cast from casting resin .any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated
 
hi mate

i have purchased some hypex ucd400hg modules with the onboard regs
i cant wait to try them

phase accurate
can you elaborate any futher
ive noticed you have some experiance with the manger driver

im also keen to hear from anyone else with any advice regarding crossover slopes and points with the manger to bass driver arangement
im using a dbx260 so it should be quite easy if you guys can give me some starting points

cheers
 
slr 5000 said:
hi all im considering a active plate amp(subwoofer) for lowpass at 180hz to a passive lr 3rd order highpass at 180hz .the drivers will be time aligned by setting the top cab(manger) back from the bottom cab (eton ) so the voice coils line up .the bass cab will be sealed at around 50l the top cab will also be sealed at around 14 litres it will be a spere cast from casting resin .any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated


Hi,

You can make a head ala B&W Nautilus, IMHO.
Where is located the woofer, below the MSW or near the floor?

Cheers,
Paolo
 
hi mate

im making it a b&w 801 clone so the woofer will be around 100mm below the manger in its own cab with the matrix style bracing

the manger will be above it in a tear dropped shaped cabinet made of mdf layers laminated together to form the tear drop shape around 10 to 12 litres

the woofer cab will be 80 litres for a qt of .577 sealed

i hope this helps

cheers
 
Mmmmhhhh,

seems to me a very impressive cabinet.
You know, the sphere+tapered tube in the original B&W must be
approx. 2 X diameter of the cone, so your MSW head will be
BIG. Rigidity will be function of the thickness, damping by material.
Do you use glass-fiber or carbon?

cheers,
 
hi

ive worked with carbon fibre a lot in the past and would love to make the sphere out of it but to me it does not seem like a suitable material

my reasons for thinking this is that carbon is a very light material and the completed sphere in carbon would be very light (good if thats what you need but we are after mass and damping properties here) and resonent and would need a lot of work with damping and such

its stiffness is very impressive but its other quality,s in my oppinion are unfortunately not suitable for speaker building

its a shame as i have in my garage 8 lineal mtrs of high grade carbon cloth and 20l of epoxy resin from another project
 
Hi,

I tend to disagree here. I have made such shape cabinets in carbon fiber and they are quite damped. Maybe it depends more of resin than
the carbon per se. Mine was about 30 cm diameter 6 mm thick.
Maybe a sandwich with carbon-glass-carbon could be more thiker,
damped(not sure here) and save a lot of money also.
B&W uses Marlan, but I have idea it is for save money also.
What other materials are you thinking about?

Oh, Wilson Benesch use carbon fiber. Expansive stuff.
 
hi mate

i already have more than enough carbon cloth and resin to make the cabs ,maybe i might try it

i did not think it would be suitable becouse a finnished product made from it is so light and i did not think somethink light wieght would be sutable (maybe i am wrong )

i once made a full car bonnet (hood) out of it for a ford falcon and the finished peice only wieghed around 6 kg

i might try it and see ,but i will have to add mass to it somehow to increase its damping

i have finnished the matrix bracing today for the bass cabs ,its made from interlinked 12mm mdf.

the outside of the cabs will be multiple layers of 6mm mdf ,it bends nice and seems to hold the curve of the cabs well
 
Manfred Scheu´s spheres you can see in the DIY zone of the Manger website are made of concrete, but I forgot how he manufactured the molds for the two half-spheres.
He uses "stoneage" amps with output caps and the Mangers are extremely sensitive to the used capacitor types. If you are going to use class D amps for the Mangers as well it may be helpful to play with the output filter caps/coils.
 
hi all

im thinking that i could shape the teardrops with cellcore or some other similar type of boatbuilding foam which cuts and works very easy

i could then put 3 layers of carbon cloth on the outside and 2 or 3 layers of heavy chopped fibreglass inside ,if i oversaturate with resin it should end up pretty solid

i could also paint a thick coating of bitumin inside over the chopped strand fibreglass which will hopefully make a nice dead enclosure

im using a dbx260 to do the initial setup and measurments which ill then use to make some nice crossovers as i have heaps of mundorf silver/oil caps left from another project
 
el'ol

i'm very interested in the output cap on the amps idea as quite a few people have reccomended this option to me

i'd like to keep the crossover as simple as possible and this would be a great way of doing it

i'll setup with the dbx260 first and see how it goes ,maybe it will sound nice and i can keep it
im just a littl;e concerned that it may not have the sound quality to match these drivers but ill find out i suppose .

any suggestions or critisism of my idea's is welcomed .
the bass cabs construction is over half way built and so is set ,but im still open to any ideas on the construction of the teardrop manger cab ,so fire away !!

i will post some pics later in the week
 
Hi slr5000,

Imho you need some expertise from people who have real experienced with Manger ( Charles, and others).
You need measurements in situ for the MSW in box alone. Then you
can apply an HP filter preferibly passive ( it protect the MSW from the
amp mistakes) and remeasure. Try to achieve a combined acoustic response at 200Hz for example so you can mirror it with the dbx LP.
I suggest to run the dbx on the woofer only and use two different amps. Do you have a preamp with double outputs?
The woofer need a big amp , the Manger need a very fine sounding
amp .

About the head, nautilus clone, 3 layers are better than 2.
Carbon-glass-carbon. Thicker is better. Lead internal is also important. But before to start a so complicated and expansive construction, a sort of cheap prototype should be verified.

Hope this help

Paolo
 
hi paolo
thankyou for your advice

once the cabs are finnished i'll take the speakers outside and take some measurements to establish a baseline

from there i'll set the speakers up using the dbx 260 and will be using a 18db lowpass at 200hz and a 6db highpass at the same to start ,and then i'll fine tune

i'll be using the hypex 400hg modules i have for high and low freqency,s for now but i plan on getting some good class a modules of around 100w for the manger once ive set it up

i dont have a pre at the moment but i do have 2 goldpoint volume controls which will go in between the dbx and poweramps
 
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