eton 12"hexacone to manger crossover - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 1st September 2008, 10:40 AM   #21
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Location: Italy
HI,

Be careful with only a cap in series on the MSW 100mf is decent
but sure you'll have a lot of excursion on the MSW. I am for a second
order (82mF- 4.7mH) yust to stay more calm. A decent amp can tollerate such bad load imo , not sure for Hypex.
About future amp I suggest a Pass, if you can. Not sure if you need
really 100W.
Do the dbx have a level control? If yes you can easy mate the levels
of the 2 combo amps with only one passive attenuator driving both
dbx and midhigh amp in parallel.

cheers,
Paolo
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Old 1st September 2008, 11:00 AM   #22
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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About the output cap:
Here is a thread about such amps:
An excellent power amp from france from the 70's
An other examle that comes to my mind is the Death of Zen (DOZ). The link to the amp M. Scheu built is in the thread. He uses large micas in parallel to the output cap (which also does the highpass filtering). I listened to it before and after the tweak, the difference is not marginal. So having good caps is essential as well if you use a conventional amp plus series cap for the highpass. Reports about the sound of the Manger differ widely due to the used amps and range from boring to aggressive (Shinobiwan´s impression). I heard there are tanks that use the Manger to give the soldiers a realistic impression of the battle field (but I don´t know whether this is just a legend). There is an article about Manger and amps at the Octave website (unfortunately only German). They say their EL34 and KT88 deliver more current at high frequencies than many some hundred watt amps and amps from the eighties usually were better in this respect. For the Black Devil M. Scheu uses I can confirm this.
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Old 1st September 2008, 02:06 PM   #23
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The standard Manger crossover is a first-order crossover with quite a high cutoff frequency that is - apart from the crossover function as such - also taking care of the response that tends to rise towards lower frequencies. If doing this passively the Manger's impedance definitley has to be taken care of (i.e. use parallel impedance equalising).

The acoustical transfer function of the original Manger crossover is 3rd/3rd order that is 6 dB down at the acoustical crossover frequency with the woofer in opposite polarity. I.e. an electrical 3rd order lowpass for the woofer and an acoustical 2nd/electrical 1st order highpass function of the MSW + crossover.

The MSW together with this crossover offers a solution that is not transient-perfect but still better than most multiway speakers inthsi respect. It offers good driver protection and low IMD from the woofer.

If you want transient-"perfect" reproduction you definitely have to go active with a filter topology that uses less-steep filters including all the disadvantages of doing so. Now you'd have to pick your poison.

Regards

Charles
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Old 1st September 2008, 02:21 PM   #24
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Location: Italy
Hi Charles,

You are referring to the zerobox 109, right?
This seems to be a little different for the Swing/subsonice combo.
The subsonice is claimed to be 4th order ( adjustable 80-160 )
while the swing is always first electrical + impedence compensation.
This seems to me a bit strange
When I heard the system, it sounds wonderful but not perfect at the cross. The frequency was set on the maximum and maybe 200Hz
could have been better.

cheers,
Paolo
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Old 1st September 2008, 03:13 PM   #25
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I don't know the details of the Swing/Subsonice combo but I thought it was 3rd order on the sub as well. But with this combo the MSW is used down to lower frequencies than it is used within the zerobox types and therefore being restricted in terms of max SPL capacity.
The acoustical crossover frequency of the larger zeroboxes is a little higher than the one of the smaller zeroboxes also. Otherwise the increased SPL capability of the woofer sections wouldn't make much sense if the MSW couldn't follow.

Regards

Charles
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Old 1st September 2008, 03:30 PM   #26
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Hi,

You are all right excerpt the LP of the sub. It is 4th. This have confused me. Very strange.
Yes, the swing's MSW excursion is consistent, THD is cleary audible
on the loud transients. Curious to see how much big is the cap inside

Paolo
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Old 7th September 2008, 06:41 AM   #27
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heres some pics of the matrix bracing
ive still got to finnish drilling all the holes and then glue it all together
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Old 7th September 2008, 06:43 AM   #28
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some more from another angle
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Old 7th September 2008, 06:44 AM   #29
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from the back
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Old 7th September 2008, 06:45 AM   #30
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heres the drivers
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