eton 12"hexacone to manger crossover - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 30th August 2008, 01:14 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy

seems to me a very impressive cabinet.
You know, the sphere+tapered tube in the original B&W must be
approx. 2 X diameter of the cone, so your MSW head will be
BIG. Rigidity will be function of the thickness, damping by material.
Do you use glass-fiber or carbon?

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Old 30th August 2008, 10:33 PM   #12
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: melbourne

ive worked with carbon fibre a lot in the past and would love to make the sphere out of it but to me it does not seem like a suitable material

my reasons for thinking this is that carbon is a very light material and the completed sphere in carbon would be very light (good if thats what you need but we are after mass and damping properties here) and resonent and would need a lot of work with damping and such

its stiffness is very impressive but its other quality,s in my oppinion are unfortunately not suitable for speaker building

its a shame as i have in my garage 8 lineal mtrs of high grade carbon cloth and 20l of epoxy resin from another project
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Old 31st August 2008, 11:45 AM   #13
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy

I tend to disagree here. I have made such shape cabinets in carbon fiber and they are quite damped. Maybe it depends more of resin than
the carbon per se. Mine was about 30 cm diameter 6 mm thick.
Maybe a sandwich with carbon-glass-carbon could be more thiker,
damped(not sure here) and save a lot of money also.
B&W uses Marlan, but I have idea it is for save money also.
What other materials are you thinking about?

Oh, Wilson Benesch use carbon fiber. Expansive stuff.
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Old 31st August 2008, 12:11 PM   #14
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Location: melbourne
hi mate

i already have more than enough carbon cloth and resin to make the cabs ,maybe i might try it

i did not think it would be suitable becouse a finnished product made from it is so light and i did not think somethink light wieght would be sutable (maybe i am wrong )

i once made a full car bonnet (hood) out of it for a ford falcon and the finished peice only wieghed around 6 kg

i might try it and see ,but i will have to add mass to it somehow to increase its damping

i have finnished the matrix bracing today for the bass cabs ,its made from interlinked 12mm mdf.

the outside of the cabs will be multiple layers of 6mm mdf ,it bends nice and seems to hold the curve of the cabs well
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Old 31st August 2008, 01:04 PM   #15
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Location: Italy

Light is good. The only cons is the transmission of sound from internal to external due to the famous" mass-law". You need lead layer elastic
glued/bitumen internally. Perdone my poor english
Ansious to see some photos !
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Old 31st August 2008, 07:08 PM   #16
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Location: Bavarian Forest
Manfred Scheu´s spheres you can see in the DIY zone of the Manger website are made of concrete, but I forgot how he manufactured the molds for the two half-spheres.
He uses "stoneage" amps with output caps and the Mangers are extremely sensitive to the used capacitor types. If you are going to use class D amps for the Mangers as well it may be helpful to play with the output filter caps/coils.
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Old 31st August 2008, 10:15 PM   #17
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Location: melbourne
hi all

im thinking that i could shape the teardrops with cellcore or some other similar type of boatbuilding foam which cuts and works very easy

i could then put 3 layers of carbon cloth on the outside and 2 or 3 layers of heavy chopped fibreglass inside ,if i oversaturate with resin it should end up pretty solid

i could also paint a thick coating of bitumin inside over the chopped strand fibreglass which will hopefully make a nice dead enclosure

im using a dbx260 to do the initial setup and measurments which ill then use to make some nice crossovers as i have heaps of mundorf silver/oil caps left from another project
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Old 31st August 2008, 10:24 PM   #18
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: melbourne

i'm very interested in the output cap on the amps idea as quite a few people have reccomended this option to me

i'd like to keep the crossover as simple as possible and this would be a great way of doing it

i'll setup with the dbx260 first and see how it goes ,maybe it will sound nice and i can keep it
im just a littl;e concerned that it may not have the sound quality to match these drivers but ill find out i suppose .

any suggestions or critisism of my idea's is welcomed .
the bass cabs construction is over half way built and so is set ,but im still open to any ideas on the construction of the teardrop manger cab ,so fire away !!

i will post some pics later in the week
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Old 1st September 2008, 08:44 AM   #19
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
Hi slr5000,

Imho you need some expertise from people who have real experienced with Manger ( Charles, and others).
You need measurements in situ for the MSW in box alone. Then you
can apply an HP filter preferibly passive ( it protect the MSW from the
amp mistakes) and remeasure. Try to achieve a combined acoustic response at 200Hz for example so you can mirror it with the dbx LP.
I suggest to run the dbx on the woofer only and use two different amps. Do you have a preamp with double outputs?
The woofer need a big amp , the Manger need a very fine sounding
amp .

About the head, nautilus clone, 3 layers are better than 2.
Carbon-glass-carbon. Thicker is better. Lead internal is also important. But before to start a so complicated and expansive construction, a sort of cheap prototype should be verified.

Hope this help

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Old 1st September 2008, 10:24 AM   #20
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: melbourne
hi paolo
thankyou for your advice

once the cabs are finnished i'll take the speakers outside and take some measurements to establish a baseline

from there i'll set the speakers up using the dbx 260 and will be using a 18db lowpass at 200hz and a 6db highpass at the same to start ,and then i'll fine tune

i'll be using the hypex 400hg modules i have for high and low freqency,s for now but i plan on getting some good class a modules of around 100w for the manger once ive set it up

i dont have a pre at the moment but i do have 2 goldpoint volume controls which will go in between the dbx and poweramps
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