Tweeter 95dB eff and from 1500Hz x-over anyone?

[Cordraconis]

I did some searches with the terms from the subject above, but to no avail.

To build a high-eficiency 2.1 system, I'm looking for a tweeter with a sensitivity of 95dB/m/W (or higher) that can be crossed over as low as 1500 Hz and for a price of max 35€/pce.
Since I would like to have 115dB max headroom at where I'll be sitting, it should handle about 50 watts music power. Preferably from some brand that can be delivered from the European mainland (hifishop.de)
So far I've found 2 candidates: The Beyma T2030 and the Beyma CP16, but I have to cross them higher than desired, so therefore I'm asking around here on this forum. Before I jump ahead.
Possibly the Beyma PH-25 is also a candidate, but when I look at the SPL curve I would rather say it is 90dB eff instead of 95 ...

It is for installation in my '94 VW Golf III, but since I rather want drivers that "get the job done", I ask around here and not in the Car Audio section. If the moderators feel this thread should be moved, then feel free to do so.
For the mids I want to use the stock cutouts in the door, so based on this size requirement I choose the Beyma PRO-6MI. Now all that is left is to find a tweeter to match. I will custom fold some "stands" on the dash, so the tweets will have a direct line-of-sight and not reflect on the windshield.

Anyone has some ideas?

[Hezz]

I am not aware of any tweeters that can do this without going to a horn. A couple of ribbon tweeters do 99-100 db but not down to 1500Hz. HI VI makes a 2 inch dome mid range which is 93 db I believe that can be crossed as low as 1000Hz.

Don't know what your reason for this spec in the small cabin of a car is but the HI VI midrange might work for you. Rather easy to mount and has it's own chamber. You may need a tweeter to go with it as it is only usable up to 10,000Hz.

I think there are several high end dome tweeters that are around 93 db sensitive but most with a bottom crossover range of 2000Hz as the lowest. But in a high volume application you would be better off combining 2 HI VI midranges to get 99db sensitivity with a ribbon that can do 99-100 db. Or you might get by going down to 1500HZ if you use at least 4 tweeters together. Using four tweeters of 90 db sensitivity will yield you around a 102db total and spreading the power between four tweeters may allow you to cross as low as 1500Hz.

The only alternative is drive one of the pro sound reinforcement tweeters that can do at least 95db at 1500Hz and see if it can survive. Also, if you care about sound quality this is an all around bad idea.

You might try driving something like this from 1500Hz and see how it works. there is a more expensive version that is supposed to go from 1500Hz. Sound quality I cannot speak to. But it sounds like you are more interested in high volume or dynamics.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=270-125

[Brett]

Change your budget and there are non-horn options like the Neo5i or Beyma TPL150. You aren't going to do it with new drivers for E35.

[Cordraconis]

Thanks for the tips guys, but I think I found an ideal candidate by clicking around on the sites i ended up with by googling your suggestions!
(Skip the next 2 paragraphs to get to the driver i found.)

First I'll elaborate a bit more about why i choose this specs: If it were a brand new BMW or something the likes, then the soundproofing would be so good to justify a HQ sound setup with separate amps etc ...
For a 14 year old car with moderate rolling sounds (compared to my 19y/o VW Golf II before!), I would consider this a waste. By going for a hi-eff system, I can skip the money on the amps to shift it partially into the speakers to get the desired above average headroom with less distortion when not driven hard and use a good radio unit to drive it. It also takes away strain from my battery, so when I'll put in a CarPuter and use Frequency Allocator or kxProject to max the SQ, it won't go dead on me.
Basically it is an educated shift from SQ to SPL, based on the rolling sounds of the old car, and the paragraph below:

I once got into my fathers car with my SPL meter and started to crank it up. Just with the stock radio unit + stock tweets and midbass in all 4 doors, it hit 109dB C to my suprise. At that point the sound was really compressed and the drivers showed signs of distress. Probably the system was xmax-limited. I liked the SPL level, but the way it was reached was too much listening fatigue. That is why I want to go hi-eff and aim for 115dB. I won't be listening at max level all the time, but i occasionally want that luxury when a good tune passes by.


I found the Beyma SMC 2012/N. You can find the datasheet with the SPL curve here:
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Produ...roduct_ID=6052
Does what I want at an even higher sensitivity. It rolls off around 15kHz, but I can live with that. Price is around 40€ so I'm not going to fret about a few euro's, given it is 1/10th of the price of the suggested ribbon tweeters... Size is also no object, as I found JBL and BMS horns that can be crossed over as low as 800Hz but with mouths of more than 10 inches wide! (I'd like to be able to see the road when I'm driving!!! )
(Edit: the SPL curve looks like it can pull it off, as compared to the PartsExpress suggestion, which is completely down at the recommended 2kHz crossover freq. I would cross it definately higher than that. )

Maybe this driver can be a tip for someone who is in the market for something similar. I'd sure like to hear the reviews if any.

[Hezz]

Cordraconis,

I think I see were your coming from now and it sounds like a valid approach. Old car, lots of road noise. Don't want to spend lots on amplification which will get ripped off. Ya, I think though the sound will not be very refined that you can accomplish what you want with pro components. The hardest part will probably be getting a good enough sounding tweeter that you can live with it. With a system of high enough efficiency the OEM stereo would probably work just fine and would be far less likely to be stolen.

But since you are putting some pro 6.5 inch drivers in the doors why do you need to cross at 1500Hz. The ear is most sensitive in this 1000-3000 Hz zone and it may be better if the energy in this zone is down and coming more from off axis. Good luck with the install.

[Cordraconis]

Well, I used an old version of Goldwave to bandpass 200-x en x-20 kHz to simulate the sound coming from the mids and tweets and to assess the x crossover freq.
The difference between 3kHz and 2kHz was not that great, but around 1kHz I clearly started to hear more information coming from the tweets.
(Edit: now that I'm replying to this and thinking about it, I think this just proves your point. Hmmmm ...) Since the mids will be listened to vastly off-axis - especially the drivers' side - I wanted to have the tweets as low as possible to mitigate beaming from the mids. I read somewhere here on the forum that drivers of 6" start to beam around 2500 Hz and I wanted to keep away from that.

When looking into the PRO-6MI SPL-plot in detail on the manufacturers site, the response slopes up starting from 2500 Hz and in the impedance plot this rise is confirmed with a very slight bump at that frequency. Probably the first breakup node of the cone.

I'll search some more about x-over frequencies, but it seems I won't push it up past 2500Hz. With this tweet at least I have some elbow space.