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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

AE Lambda Midbass 10 Project?
AE Lambda Midbass 10 Project?
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Old 6th August 2008, 12:42 AM   #121
chengtaw is offline chengtaw
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney



Now thats an ancient chinese secret

We work with few different cone companies actually, some do some things better than others.
Hi! Nick, is that you? Are you doing well?
Welcome back!!!!!

I lost all of your e-mails since hard disk crashed, but I'm glad to see you are back to the speaker world again.

Could you kindly drop me an e-mail(just push the button below)? I want to show you something interesting...
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Old 6th August 2008, 03:38 AM   #122
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Setting the T/S parameters for Lambda 10" Midbass

Vote early.....Vote often

I posted T/S parameters in this thread which would make the new Lambda 10" midbass 95db efficient and very well suited for a dipole midrange which could cover the 80-1,500 Hz human voice range. A Qts ~ 0.5 was selected with a Mms of ~25 grams. The new Seas Exotic 8" with underhung motor has a Qts of 0.44 and 10 grams Mms, so great minds do think alike. Full Range speakers have a strong following, which I believe it due to crossover free vocals, and I think this "single driver voice" philosophy is the best challenge for new speaker technology.

WinISD Graph shows some comparison data between current TD10M and the proposed T/S parameters for 10" Midbass. Hope this helps generate some discussion and possible agreement.

Green = TD10M ported
Yellow = TD10M sealed

Red-ish = 10" Midbass ported
Orange = 10" Midbass sealed
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File Type: jpg td10m_midbass10.jpg (71.6 KB, 561 views)
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Old 14th August 2008, 10:05 PM   #123
swak is offline swak
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John and Nick

now that you mention you have 6.5 and 8" drivers in the pipeline I would like to say an 8" that betters the one used in the AUDIONOTE AN-E (which now uses hemp cones and silver wire coils on their highest model) would be a great product.

Audionote sells the AN-E as 98 dB efficient, but that's in room and near corners. If you guys could come up with a decent sensitivity driver following your design principles and optimized for a SNELL E type alignment, smooth rolloff, and wide bandwidth (the Audionote AN-E is crossed over @ 3K) you would have in my opinion a winner. A kit would not be very difficult to develop, would be modest in price, not too big or difficult to construct and certainly good enough even for the most discerning, as the AN-E's attest. I would be more than happy to help develop a kit and would salivate over an alnico of field coil version.

Look in this thread for Kuei's and sreten's comments http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-83338.html
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Old 15th August 2008, 04:35 AM   #124
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Setting the T/S parameters for Lambda 10" Midbass

Guess for 10" and 12" T/S parameters which can be used for simulation
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File Type: jpg midbass_ts.jpg (91.4 KB, 435 views)
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Old 15th August 2008, 08:48 PM   #125
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Quote:
Look in this thread for Kuei's and sreten's comments http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-83338.html
Neither Kuei or sreten wrote a comment in the thread you linked us
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Old 15th August 2008, 09:28 PM   #126
badman is offline badman  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tang Band W8-1722

Quote:
Originally posted by John_E_Janowitz



The 6.5" was the problem we ran into in doing a 3way as discussed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1035126

We planned on a 6.5" to cover approximately 300hz to 3KHz, but just can't find any 6.5" that can cover the range and sound as good as the TD10M, 12M, or 15M. We simply have to make one as nothing available measures up. We will also be doing some waveguides in the future allowing for some very nice 2way systems. A TD12M mated to the 12" round waveguide for example or a TD15M mated too the 15" round waveguide would be an extremely simple solution.

John

A few different options: Audax PR17OMO (not sure if the re-production is still going), MaxSpeakers PR65Neo (underhung, good driver, but big 4-5k breakup), and the well controlled, good sounding Alpha 6A, are all solid options.
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Old 15th August 2008, 09:44 PM   #127
John_E_Janowitz is offline John_E_Janowitz  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tang Band W8-1722

Quote:
Originally posted by badman
A few different options: Audax PR17OMO (not sure if the re-production is still going), MaxSpeakers PR65Neo (underhung, good driver, but big 4-5k breakup), and the well controlled, good sounding Alpha 6A, are all solid options.
We've looked at nearly everything imaginable, and they all have similar issues. We just can't find anything that really makes sense to mate to the TD drivers. We have flat, smooth response on the TD15M out to 4KHz. To use a 6.5" driver with it needs to at least equal what you get from the 15".

The Audax has quite high inductance, .73mH, Xmax of only .5mm, and quite the resonance at 1200hz as seen in the impedance curve. It also has the breakup at 3KHz and up from there. Nothing done to linearize inductance or lower distortion.

The 18sound 6ND410 has a horrible breakup due to the dustcap, inductance is still high. Again, no attempts at linear incutance, lowering distortion, etc.

The MAX Fidelity PR65 you mention does't have an impedance curve shown, but as you mention has the huge rising response starting up at 2KHz and peaking almost 10dB at 4500hz. This is with a heavily smoothed curve so I'd hate to see what it looks like unsmoothed.

B&C's, Beyma's, the PHL's, Alpha6, etc, just none of them really have what we're looking for. In covering up to 3KHz in a system I want extremely smooth to at least 6KHz and then a smooth rolloff above that. Linear inductance is a must as well as decreasing non-linear distortion. Good heatsinking and low power compression are also critical. So is relatively high Xmax for the range covered. We're looking at 3mm one way with very flat BL linearity. We have some good solutions already in the works.

John
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Old 15th August 2008, 09:54 PM   #128
hasselbaink is offline hasselbaink  Denmark
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tang Band W8-1722

Quote:
Originally posted by John_E_Janowitz


We've looked at nearly everything imaginable, and they all have similar issues. We just can't find anything that really makes sense to mate to the TD drivers. We have flat, smooth response on the TD15M out to 4KHz. To use a 6.5" driver with it needs to at least equal what you get from the 15".

The Audax has quite high inductance, .73mH, Xmax of only .5mm, and quite the resonance at 1200hz as seen in the impedance curve. It also has the breakup at 3KHz and up from there. Nothing done to linearize inductance or lower distortion.

The 18sound 6ND410 has a horrible breakup due to the dustcap, inductance is still high. Again, no attempts at linear incutance, lowering distortion, etc.

The MAX Fidelity PR65 you mention does't have an impedance curve shown, but as you mention has the huge rising response starting up at 2KHz and peaking almost 10dB at 4500hz. This is with a heavily smoothed curve so I'd hate to see what it looks like unsmoothed.

B&C's, Beyma's, the PHL's, Alpha6, etc, just none of them really have what we're looking for. In covering up to 3KHz in a system I want extremely smooth to at least 6KHz and then a smooth rolloff above that. Linear inductance is a must as well as decreasing non-linear distortion. Good heatsinking and low power compression are also critical. So is relatively high Xmax for the range covered. We're looking at 3mm one way with very flat BL linearity. We have some good solutions already in the works.

John

Sounds terrific! I would pay good euros for such a 6" driver. I'm currently using the Vifa 17 WN 225 : Link to data sheet

Reasonably behaved unit, but only 91-92 db sensitive.

Kris
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Old 4th September 2008, 08:45 PM   #129
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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K&Q Sound Genesis Model 1 high efficiency planar

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1225420119

Lambda Acoustics may want to put the R&D into a similar dipole design and sell it on Audiogon to showcase its speakers, or loan it out to amplifier companies for trade show listening rooms. The new 10" midbass and TD15M could be compared with ears as well as T/S and distortion measurements.

So, is the 10" midbass Mms ~ 20 grams with Ganja cones? Woven Kevlar? Basic Black paper?
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Old 4th September 2008, 09:37 PM   #130
John_E_Janowitz is offline John_E_Janowitz  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by LineSource
So, is the 10" midbass Mms ~ 20 grams with Ganja cones? Woven Kevlar? Basic Black paper?
It's a secret and we can't tell you. Actually we are experimenting with a couple different pulps. A standard paper pulp like used on the TD drivers which performs well. A much more traditional pulp, the likes of what was used in the old Western Electric 755's and drivers of that era which are still regarded for their great midbass. Then we are actually working on our own pulp. We are importing raw papyrus reed from a group of missionaries in Rwanda and turning it into a pulp here that our cone vendor can then use to formulate cones from. The latter will be much more down the road. We expect the traditional pulp will be the most ideal for the midbass and be very appealing to those with love for the old vintage altec sound.

John
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