Here's the discontinued Fane M4-12LF I mentioned at the start of this thread:
http://prodance.cz/protokoly/FANE_M4-12LF.pdf
..SPL "only" in the 95-97dB range, but much cleaner CSD, aside from the breakup, which is really a lot less severe than most of its type.
There are other drivers like this out there as well, it's just a matter of finding them. Aside from the rising response and nasty breakup, even the Eminence Deltalite-II 2512 isn't so bad. With this driver, even a nice 2-way with a 50Hz 2nd order highpass could be done (with a lot less headroom of course). But it's the response between 1.5 and 2 KHz and nasty breakup that I find bothersome, and the rising response would have to be dealt with. Other than that, it seems like a good driver for the money. I wouldn't use it in a 3-way though. For a two-way, definitely. Only problem other than that is a big one.. no waveguides quite large enough out there. http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly/Eminence_DeltaLite-II_2512.pdf
Haven't heard any of the Great Plains drivers, unfortunately. Price is probably out of my price range. Same goes for the TD12M, but it's still under consideration.
http://prodance.cz/protokoly/FANE_M4-12LF.pdf
..SPL "only" in the 95-97dB range, but much cleaner CSD, aside from the breakup, which is really a lot less severe than most of its type.
There are other drivers like this out there as well, it's just a matter of finding them. Aside from the rising response and nasty breakup, even the Eminence Deltalite-II 2512 isn't so bad. With this driver, even a nice 2-way with a 50Hz 2nd order highpass could be done (with a lot less headroom of course). But it's the response between 1.5 and 2 KHz and nasty breakup that I find bothersome, and the rising response would have to be dealt with. Other than that, it seems like a good driver for the money. I wouldn't use it in a 3-way though. For a two-way, definitely. Only problem other than that is a big one.. no waveguides quite large enough out there. http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly/Eminence_DeltaLite-II_2512.pdf
Haven't heard any of the Great Plains drivers, unfortunately. Price is probably out of my price range. Same goes for the TD12M, but it's still under consideration.
It'd work. It's just that with a 3-way, there's better out there for not much more IMO, like the B&C 12HPL76, for example. Only slight issue with that one is that even a 4th order at 250Hz is pushing it a bit IMO, as it'd be over 30dB down an octave under the xo point. If I wasn't going the active route, this kind of stuff wouldn't be an issue since I could use a different slope and cross much lower. As for the 2512, it's not quite as usable up high, that break up sucks, as well as the rising response. However, you can actually get enough low freq response out of it to crossover to a subwoofer. With subs, I've always crossed low, like 40-50Hz. About 40-45 Hz usually sounds best to me, and most 12" pro drivers can't do that.
Several weeks ago I asked whether anyone had experience of some of the Celestion Pro, not guitar drivers, but got no response. Two of the 10" ones look reasonably smooth both in the frequency response and impedance curves. Like you I have been looking for a bigger upper bass and mid speaker that was fairly efficient. I think one was the TF1020 and the other was the Neo version. The ferrite version looked a bit smoother but I have never heard either and have no idea as to pricing. Nobody seems to have experienced them.
jamikl
jamikl
jamikl,
Yeah, that seems to happen pretty regularly around here, and anywhere else as well. I have all the Celestion Pro PDF's, and have seen those drivers you mention. Like you, I haven't found much regarding Celestion Pro drivers at all. Several of them appear good enough to be used in various designs, and the price is right too. Might be really good for the money, but I guess we'll never know. I haven't even seen 3rd party measurements of any of these drivers, at least not that I remember.
Anyway, I've been looking into the Eighteen Sound XT1464 for a few weeks or so now. Recently started another thread on it, with no useful replies as of yet. Maybe I'll just go it alone like I used to.
Although I'll admit that I've done very little in comparison to so many others around here, as far as construction of projects goes, I don't think I've ever bothered to post a finished project. Posting on forums often seems to be more of a waste of time than anything. And with all the ridiculous web-ego being thrown about from pathetic no-lifes, as well some of the most knowledgeable people, it really just seems like a bunch of BS to me. Sad thing is, I come to this forum and only this forum, as everywhere else seems to be much worse. Seems to me like.. due to forums like this, this hobby has transformed from something that was once interesting and enjoyable to more of a childish ******** competition between adults with psychological problems.
Good luck with your search.
Yeah, that seems to happen pretty regularly around here, and anywhere else as well. I have all the Celestion Pro PDF's, and have seen those drivers you mention. Like you, I haven't found much regarding Celestion Pro drivers at all. Several of them appear good enough to be used in various designs, and the price is right too. Might be really good for the money, but I guess we'll never know. I haven't even seen 3rd party measurements of any of these drivers, at least not that I remember.
Anyway, I've been looking into the Eighteen Sound XT1464 for a few weeks or so now. Recently started another thread on it, with no useful replies as of yet. Maybe I'll just go it alone like I used to.
Although I'll admit that I've done very little in comparison to so many others around here, as far as construction of projects goes, I don't think I've ever bothered to post a finished project. Posting on forums often seems to be more of a waste of time than anything. And with all the ridiculous web-ego being thrown about from pathetic no-lifes, as well some of the most knowledgeable people, it really just seems like a bunch of BS to me. Sad thing is, I come to this forum and only this forum, as everywhere else seems to be much worse. Seems to me like.. due to forums like this, this hobby has transformed from something that was once interesting and enjoyable to more of a childish ******** competition between adults with psychological problems.
Good luck with your search.
Thanks BHTX, like you I used to only take part in this forum but conflicting egos are making it quite hard to absorb anything now or to have any confidence in anything that is said. This has been mentioned in other posts. I saw a bit about Smiths horns on another forum so I'm trying to find out more about them now. I like the way Lynn Olsen has largely managed to stay clear of most of it but the way that one is going is likely to be well above what I can afford. Its not just the purchase of the units - its the freight charges. I know a lot of us have to face that one too.
jamikl
jamikl
The difficulty you have is that pro drivers are rarely used by philes and DIYers, and the ones you chose are not mentioned by anyone anywhere else. Without more info than an FR curve, I'd be hesitant unless I could return them after measuring them.jamikl said:
Some brands like JBL and Altec are well known and there is some experience with them. The further you move away from the known, the less experience there is out there. They may be great drivers, but they could also be dogs.
I've built and tried a number of rectangular horns of varying types. Rectangular horns of high aspect ratio with throat discontinuities generally sound awful, IME. The Smith's are a very old design and I think you could do much better with a more modern design like an Azura.jamikl said:
I think I know where you are talking about, and they are definitely fan-boys (no offence, just my impression) so take what you read with a grain of salt.
If you're going for a 15 or 18, why not try a 10 or 8 instead. This will give you a better dispersion match to a CD+WG/horn in the 1k2-1k6 region (bit higher for the 8 maybe).BHTX said:
Suggested 10's are the JBL 2123, 2012, 18Sound 10NDA and NMB series. in 8" the 18S 8NDA looks interesting. For cheap and old-school, the EV EVM12L and EV-10 look good. I like the sound of the 12L as a sealed mid (great harmonica speaker too BTW).
The Beyma's have also been consistent and excellent drivers that seem to match their specs, but I have no experience of the 10's, only the 15G40 I use in bass rigs.
I gave up a bit in sensitivity in my current design, by moving from the pro drivers to AE TD15X and TD10M, but gained a better motor. Mains and sides will both be WMTMW, with the AE in the mains all sealed, and JBLs in the sides, with the LF ported. HF will be Geddes WG's. All 4 speakers will be active.
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