Yes, thats corretct.
I was also reading this thread, poor price/performance....
But I have read very good reviews about this AT..I am planning to use those also someday. Scanspeaks are also really natural. But unfortunately I really dont like how the look...thats my problem.
Is there any other excellent midrange , that looks good and nice?
I was also reading this thread, poor price/performance....
But I have read very good reviews about this AT..I am planning to use those also someday. Scanspeaks are also really natural. But unfortunately I really dont like how the look...thats my problem.
Is there any other excellent midrange , that looks good and nice?
Yes, i just read from AT webpage, that Sonus is using also theyr drivers.
I have done research about Eton and got some average responce. There is not many people are using it. Thats I do not like-does people then dont like them?!..is the question. Other side I got some really good responce for 7" Eton, which is very good for woofer.
But I am looking midrange...Eton visually looks perfect for that ( I am doing some nice design, thats why I put some effort also, how driver looks), but sound is so-so! Some are saying that SS is totally over it ( I agree, but take a look how 8545 looks - those lines!!!!
and other side is Eton not so detailed and a littlebit dry?!
Ringo
I have done research about Eton and got some average responce. There is not many people are using it. Thats I do not like-does people then dont like them?!..is the question. Other side I got some really good responce for 7" Eton, which is very good for woofer.
But I am looking midrange...Eton visually looks perfect for that ( I am doing some nice design, thats why I put some effort also, how driver looks), but sound is so-so! Some are saying that SS is totally over it ( I agree, but take a look how 8545 looks - those lines!!!!
and other side is Eton not so detailed and a littlebit dry?!
Ringo
Yess, I know that-its not usual behavior to select drivers how they look. I am planning to use some SS series tweeters(there is many good ones, 6600, 7000,9000) or peerless HDS ( I own it, and just for ear it makes better and more natural voice than 27TFFC for excample.
Woofer, probably Eton or SS...I was consider also Seas Excle magnesium, but just read that SS is more natural, not so cold, and dry.
Its gonna be three different types of speakers, so I need at least 3 different choices for midrange-I can always find woofers and tweeters.
One thing I was also considering, is AT C-Quence fe., but its excpensive, I have never heard it, so I am worried, is ist really worth 300 bucks, compared 200 for SS 15 fe. or even Audax AM130 (own and sounds very good-brings singer closer to listener).
Nice weather here is Estonia
Woofer, probably Eton or SS...I was consider also Seas Excle magnesium, but just read that SS is more natural, not so cold, and dry.
Its gonna be three different types of speakers, so I need at least 3 different choices for midrange-I can always find woofers and tweeters.
One thing I was also considering, is AT C-Quence fe., but its excpensive, I have never heard it, so I am worried, is ist really worth 300 bucks, compared 200 for SS 15 fe. or even Audax AM130 (own and sounds very good-brings singer closer to listener).
Nice weather here is Estonia
Hi,
I can highly recommend the Seas here
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=87
Ive done a project with it, and it sounds great. I like it better then the AT, and in some cases the SS.
http://www.speakerbuilder.dk/content/getPage.asp?id=25
If the size is not important, try the SS 12M. Its VERY good.
I can highly recommend the Seas here
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=87
Ive done a project with it, and it sounds great. I like it better then the AT, and in some cases the SS.
http://www.speakerbuilder.dk/content/getPage.asp?id=25
If the size is not important, try the SS 12M. Its VERY good.
Its really intresting to read, what AT guys are writing about their conematerial they are using. And they say that magnesium is the worst..but still I have heard something good about magnesium.
Well, personally, please describe me the differences between this Seas, AT and SS 12M.
What can you suggest for classical music, lots of vocals, pianos etc.
It means that its not gonna be trancemusic-speaker
..but still I have heard something good about magnesium.Well, personally, please describe me the differences between this Seas, AT and SS 12M.
What can you suggest for classical music, lots of vocals, pianos etc.
It means that its not gonna be trancemusic-speaker
Well all of the drivers are going to sound a lot different. The Seas is a magnesium cone and so will need to be crossed over low and steep to sound best. Probably no higher tham 2.5 kHz 4th order acoustic. It will also need a notch filter to get rid of the breakup peak. The seas excel drivers can sound amazing with the proper XO, without it they can sound terrible.
The AT driver doesn't look like anything special considering the price. The ones I have seen had great build quality but frequency response and distortion have been just average.
The Scan Speak 12M midrange has pretty smooth response but doesn't have the SD motor of the 15W drivers. Since the price is about the same, the 15W drivers are IMO the better choice unless you really need a 4" driver. The SS revelator drivers are probably the best midwoofers I have ever heard or used, especially if you want a higher XO point or shallower slopes.
You don't specify what sort of measurement or XO tools you have but these are all expensive drivers and you really need the measurement tools and XO design skills to take full advantage of them.
Regards,
Dennis
The AT driver doesn't look like anything special considering the price. The ones I have seen had great build quality but frequency response and distortion have been just average.
The Scan Speak 12M midrange has pretty smooth response but doesn't have the SD motor of the 15W drivers. Since the price is about the same, the 15W drivers are IMO the better choice unless you really need a 4" driver. The SS revelator drivers are probably the best midwoofers I have ever heard or used, especially if you want a higher XO point or shallower slopes.
You don't specify what sort of measurement or XO tools you have but these are all expensive drivers and you really need the measurement tools and XO design skills to take full advantage of them.
Regards,
Dennis
Thats very good overview about those drivers, it looks like you really dont like AT, comparing SS and Seas excel. I am gonna use at least 5", so 15W would be in the game...
All my speakers gonna be woofers in side, so XO needs to be low, 150-200Hz, like I sayd tweeters can be different, but right now I have 810921 and it sound clean and clear. I am gonna buy others to compare with others.
I have measurement mic, and will have preamp for that, plus software (ARTA)-it looks like, it is easiest in the market. SW i have also, but its too complicated and takes too much time.
I have contacts with our piano industry, so speakers will be covered pianolack, plus I am using maple or walnut burl veneer.
By the way, can somebody tell me something about Eton 5"?! compare with others.
All my speakers gonna be woofers in side, so XO needs to be low, 150-200Hz, like I sayd tweeters can be different, but right now I have 810921 and it sound clean and clear. I am gonna buy others to compare with others.
I have measurement mic, and will have preamp for that, plus software (ARTA)-it looks like, it is easiest in the market. SW i have also, but its too complicated and takes too much time.
I have contacts with our piano industry, so speakers will be covered pianolack, plus I am using maple or walnut burl veneer.
By the way, can somebody tell me something about Eton 5"?! compare with others.
rinx said:
It isn't that I don't like the AT drivers, they are just, IMO, overpriced compared to other better performing options from Seas, Scan Speak, and others.
It is good you have measurement equipment, but the XO design is where you will really make or break this project. That can be done in Speaker workshop.
Regards,
Dennis
Hey
On my website, you can see my crossover amplitude for the Seas driver. It sounds very good. I would prefer it over the 15W/15M.
I would any day prefer the 12M over the 15W/15M. It has some of the best midrange ive ever heard.
So, for only midrange in a 4 way system, i would prefer the 12M. For a 2Way, the Seas Hexadym for details, and the 15W for a more warm sound.
On my website, you can see my crossover amplitude for the Seas driver. It sounds very good. I would prefer it over the 15W/15M.
I would any day prefer the 12M over the 15W/15M. It has some of the best midrange ive ever heard.
So, for only midrange in a 4 way system, i would prefer the 12M. For a 2Way, the Seas Hexadym for details, and the 15W for a more warm sound.
Thank you for suggestions.
djarchow - So, about SW, can you suggest some other programs also, the same value, but a littlebit easier to use and understand. For me and probably for other DIY persons also, is how to get right XO points...I have seen some software, but they should be in my language, it takes a time to get us to it and understand very well.
Syncroniq - I took a look in your website. You have done some pretty nice projects over there, it looks that you really like SS. I am gonna do 3-way, about 200 and 2000-3000 XO points. For that i think I cant use 12M - it cant handle so low low-end, probably goes to much distortion.
djarchow - So, about SW, can you suggest some other programs also, the same value, but a littlebit easier to use and understand. For me and probably for other DIY persons also, is how to get right XO points...I have seen some software, but they should be in my language
, it takes a time to get us to it and understand very well.Syncroniq - I took a look in your website. You have done some pretty nice projects over there, it looks that you really like SS. I am gonna do 3-way, about 200 and 2000-3000 XO points. For that i think I cant use 12M - it cant handle so low low-end, probably goes to much distortion.
Rinx, unless you have a software and hardware to measure your drivers, and understanding of all specs of speaker design, good or best drivers out there will render themselves useless. You will not be able to benefit from all the advantages.
I should probably say, if you have a willpower to learn the software and all aspects.
I don't know of any non English software.
Zaph and Troels have some great designs out there and would recommend that you look at theirs first.
My personal preference would be Zaph. He's a no nonsense designer with a very deep understanding of all issues involved in the crossover design.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
I should probably say, if you have a willpower to learn the software and all aspects.
I don't know of any non English software.
Zaph and Troels have some great designs out there and would recommend that you look at theirs first.
My personal preference would be Zaph. He's a no nonsense designer with a very deep understanding of all issues involved in the crossover design.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
Hi,
With software you can estimate an enclosure size. Thats about it. Not even portcalculations are usefull. Theres simply to many variables.
I cant give you crossoverpoints befor i see how the drivers meassure in the enclosure you build, with the location of drivers you choose. Everything has an impact on the crossover.
Its up hill, but very interesting to do a kit from buttum up. I can recommend LspCAD from www.ijdata.com. With that software yo can do frequency and impedance measurements, and simulate crossovers on those meassurements.
For boxdesign i would recommend SCP. Its easy, fast and online.
Best regards,
Henrik Høegh
With software you can estimate an enclosure size. Thats about it. Not even portcalculations are usefull. Theres simply to many variables.
I cant give you crossoverpoints befor i see how the drivers meassure in the enclosure you build, with the location of drivers you choose. Everything has an impact on the crossover.
Its up hill, but very interesting to do a kit from buttum up. I can recommend LspCAD from www.ijdata.com. With that software yo can do frequency and impedance measurements, and simulate crossovers on those meassurements.
For boxdesign i would recommend SCP. Its easy, fast and online.
Best regards,
Henrik Høegh
Good morning from Estonia!
Yess, I agree, if I do not put any effort to get good results, I wount get. I still try to handle with SW, I already build Eric W. jig also for that. Its my first project , maybe thats why I have there so many questions and have'nt done whole process trought.
So far I am using excel based soft. for enclosure and got same measurement as one really "old" audiophile from this forum, so this should be accurate enough. Its my first win
I have taken a look in zaph and troels pages long time already and found they have a lot of knowledge, when I am decided what drivers to use I can get some ideas for XO points from theyr experience. But I think I should still use my ears too to get best sounding speakers..not only measurements. Each type of cone should have theyr own sound (magnesium, paper, aerogel etc.)
Yess, I agree, if I do not put any effort to get good results, I wount get. I still try to handle with SW, I already build Eric W. jig also for that. Its my first project , maybe thats why I have there so many questions and have'nt done whole process trought.
So far I am using excel based soft. for enclosure and got same measurement as one really "old" audiophile from this forum, so this should be accurate enough. Its my first win
I have taken a look in zaph and troels pages long time already and found they have a lot of knowledge, when I am decided what drivers to use I can get some ideas for XO points from theyr experience. But I think I should still use my ears too to get best sounding speakers..not only measurements. Each type of cone should have theyr own sound (magnesium, paper, aerogel etc.)
About the etons....
The Etons are excellent drivers in general. Unfortunately in the anglo- american hemisphere experience with these units is rather.. errrr lets say close to non existant. The Etons are used in some excellent and pretty well known diy designs, however not in the US.
I would chose the Eton 7'' and 6.5'' over the SS8545 anytime. The Scanspeaks midrange, although it might measure better distortionwise is imO not that great after all. The Scanspeaks heavy DKM cone is without a doubt an excellent one esp for bass reproduciton but midrangewise i prefer the more lightweight Kevlar that Eton offers.
There are some Eton designs on Udos site, a pretty well known DIY guy in germany for example.
http://www.acoustic-design-magazin....?bigwareCsid=b2d63570bad982a079093708ccb9f708
The Etons are excellent drivers in general. Unfortunately in the anglo- american hemisphere experience with these units is rather.. errrr lets say close to non existant. The Etons are used in some excellent and pretty well known diy designs, however not in the US.
I would chose the Eton 7'' and 6.5'' over the SS8545 anytime. The Scanspeaks midrange, although it might measure better distortionwise is imO not that great after all. The Scanspeaks heavy DKM cone is without a doubt an excellent one esp for bass reproduciton but midrangewise i prefer the more lightweight Kevlar that Eton offers.
There are some Eton designs on Udos site, a pretty well known DIY guy in germany for example.
http://www.acoustic-design-magazin....?bigwareCsid=b2d63570bad982a079093708ccb9f708
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