Hello friends 
I recently purchased a pair of SB Acoustics SB29NRX75-6 10” woofers: http://www.sbacoustics.com/specproduct.php?product_name=10 SB29NRX75-6
Madisound has slightly different Qms spec, I don't know why: http://madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=147&products_id=8303
I modeled these with dosbox to go into a TL 1.6-1.8 meters line length, 600 cm^2 straight line with 8 kg/meter stuffing and it modeled well, I thought. Are frequencies below 20 Hz reproduced by typical amplifiers? I have a Yamaha amplifier I might be using to power these. I ask because some TL's modeled much better for driver excursion under 20 Hz than others
This woofer seems to function well up to 900 Hz, so I need to something to reproduce sound from that point up, I figure. I thought of a full-range, a horn, a Heil tweeter, and a dome midrange and tweeter combination. What would be a good option to match with this speaker? I was just going to go with a full-range because it's the easiest and I already have 4 Cambridge Soundworks full-range speakers, just lying around.
I plan to use an active cross-over at the 900 Hz point or lower, but I don’t have one yet. I have seen some schematics and they seem pretty simple to build, no?
I’m having a hard time finding a single driver that covers 900-20000 Hz, which I assumed would be a 2-3” driver, but they aren’t any that have a flat response, with good distortion figures. Maybe that is why I mostly see a dome midrange with tweeter paired with larger than 8” woofers; and sometimes a full-range or horn. I also like that large Heil tweeter but don't know much about it.
I recently purchased a pair of SB Acoustics SB29NRX75-6 10” woofers: http://www.sbacoustics.com/specproduct.php?product_name=10 SB29NRX75-6
Madisound has slightly different Qms spec, I don't know why: http://madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=147&products_id=8303
I modeled these with dosbox to go into a TL 1.6-1.8 meters line length, 600 cm^2 straight line with 8 kg/meter stuffing and it modeled well, I thought. Are frequencies below 20 Hz reproduced by typical amplifiers? I have a Yamaha amplifier I might be using to power these. I ask because some TL's modeled much better for driver excursion under 20 Hz than others
This woofer seems to function well up to 900 Hz, so I need to something to reproduce sound from that point up, I figure. I thought of a full-range, a horn, a Heil tweeter, and a dome midrange and tweeter combination. What would be a good option to match with this speaker? I was just going to go with a full-range because it's the easiest and I already have 4 Cambridge Soundworks full-range speakers, just lying around.
I plan to use an active cross-over at the 900 Hz point or lower, but I don’t have one yet. I have seen some schematics and they seem pretty simple to build, no?
I’m having a hard time finding a single driver that covers 900-20000 Hz, which I assumed would be a 2-3” driver, but they aren’t any that have a flat response, with good distortion figures. Maybe that is why I mostly see a dome midrange with tweeter paired with larger than 8” woofers; and sometimes a full-range or horn. I also like that large Heil tweeter but don't know much about it.
http://markaudio.com/alpair5_intro
these are new and not much information
but they are +- evolution/continuation
of Jordan's JR6 HD and they go to 30khz
http://www.esotericaudiodevices.com/jordan/drivers/jxr6.html
they are not very sensitive - you may thinking about using 2
these are new and not much information
but they are +- evolution/continuation
of Jordan's JR6 HD and they go to 30khz
http://www.esotericaudiodevices.com/jordan/drivers/jxr6.html
they are not very sensitive - you may thinking about using 2
Those are great 2” drivers. But I think I have figured out why I have not seen any many match a 10” and 2” driver. So I have decided to go with the mid/tweeter combination of http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html I would like to use this with an active cross-over between the dome midranges and my woofers, but I can’t figure out which cap(s) are responsible for high passing the midrange. I will not need that part of the cross-over, since I’m going to use an active cross-over.
Also I don’t know if I want to build a TL anymore, do to its size and poorer low frequency extension vs. a ported enclosure of about half the size, according to dosbox. I don’t know how a TL sounds, but I seem to dislike all the ported enclosures I’ve heard with respect to a sealed ones. The only TL I have heard (not sure if that’s what it is) is the Bose waveguide one and it sounds much better than Bose’s ported designs. Is there any place near Boston I can listen to some TL enclosures?
Also I don’t know if I want to build a TL anymore, do to its size and poorer low frequency extension vs. a ported enclosure of about half the size, according to dosbox. I don’t know how a TL sounds, but I seem to dislike all the ported enclosures I’ve heard with respect to a sealed ones. The only TL I have heard (not sure if that’s what it is) is the Bose waveguide one and it sounds much better than Bose’s ported designs. Is there any place near Boston I can listen to some TL enclosures?
From Zaph's description of the ZDT3.5 with some edits:
The midrange uses a single capacitor (C7) for the high pass to reach LR2 along with a impedance flattening notch (L13/R14/C12) to keep the rolloff under control.
L8 and C11 are the lowpass (to the tweeter)
C10 is a notch to flatten the breakup peak at 13KHz
R6 provides level matching attenuation across the midrange bandpass
Cheers,
David.
Oops, I think I figured out the cross-over or rather reread what zaph wrote.
Lol, yeah I read that whole page several times I thought.
Sorry, I post some really moronic questions.
I would like to listen to a TL before I build one, maybe some retails stores around me have some for sale I can listen too.
Oh! This question is not moronic
Or maybe it is 
I plan on building a Avalon Diamond type enclosure http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72574&highlight=avalon Of course it looks better if the woofer is about 15-20 cm away from the midrange, is this acceptable for a cross-over point of 900Hz? I'm aiming for a 4th order crossover.
Lol, yeah I read that whole page several times I thought.
Sorry, I post some really moronic questions.
I would like to listen to a TL before I build one, maybe some retails stores around me have some for sale I can listen too.
Oh! This question is not moronic
Or maybe it is I plan on building a Avalon Diamond type enclosure http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72574&highlight=avalon Of course it looks better if the woofer is about 15-20 cm away from the midrange, is this acceptable for a cross-over point of 900Hz? I'm aiming for a 4th order crossover.
!
I was thinking this earlier . . . lol . . . but it was ruining my happiness
because I didn't want to build a 3-way with a cone midrange for some reason. So I decided to ignore that this woofer probably didn't sound that hot out too 900 Hz or past. But also I thought I could solve this problem by crossing it over at 900 Hz between 12-24 db/octave electrically. Small woofers made by this company seem to be able to be used until the point where you see that sudden dip in the response, so I guess in a way I convinced myself it would sound okay up to 900 HZ and a little past.
I'm so sick of this! I don't even want to build speakers, lol. All the dust gets stuck in my beautiful hair for days lol.
tinitus said:
I was thinking this earlier . . . lol . . . but it was ruining my happiness
because I didn't want to build a 3-way with a cone midrange for some reason. So I decided to ignore that this woofer probably didn't sound that hot out too 900 Hz or past. But also I thought I could solve this problem by crossing it over at 900 Hz between 12-24 db/octave electrically. Small woofers made by this company seem to be able to be used until the point where you see that sudden dip in the response, so I guess in a way I convinced myself it would sound okay up to 900 HZ and a little past.I'm so sick of this! I don't even want to build speakers, lol. All the dust gets stuck in my beautiful hair for days
lol.
Ok, I think I got it.
I'm going to get a CSS FR125 for the top end. I think this should be a good match, since I've never met a tweeter I liked. Maybe it won't sound as good as a 3-way, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm more of an arteest than a technical wizard lol
Are there any problems with this match?
I'm going to get a CSS FR125 for the top end. I think this should be a good match, since I've never met a tweeter I liked. Maybe it won't sound as good as a 3-way, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm more of an arteest than a technical wizard
lolAre there any problems with this match?
With the FR125 used as a midrange distortion ought to go down so it should be able to take a little more power ... it may be worth a try, but sorry to say theres no guarantee of anything
Is it a good match with the SB 10" ?
It may depend on how the small peaking/rise around 100hz sounds
It may not be any problem at all ... you will have to try to know
But above that its a 88db, and that ought to work fine with a mid driver of a little less than 85db
A closed box of 40-50 liter ought to tame it very well
btw ... it seem theres a new model FR125 with different (better?)chassis
Is it a good match with the SB 10" ?
It may depend on how the small peaking/rise around 100hz sounds
It may not be any problem at all ... you will have to try to know
But above that its a 88db, and that ought to work fine with a mid driver of a little less than 85db
A closed box of 40-50 liter ought to tame it very well
btw ... it seem theres a new model FR125 with different (better?)chassis
I have obtained my drivers:
Seas 27TDFC - http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=149&products_id=792
CSS WR125S - http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/WR-FR125-measurements.pdf
SB Acoutics SB29NRX75-6 10" Woofer - http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=147&products_id=8303
I'm going to use an active computer controlled x-over. I would like to make the speaker 6-7 inches wide, but this means I would have to side mount the woofer. Or I could mount it at a 30 degree angle from the front of the woofer to the side panel. I would like to cross the mid to woofer around 300 Hz, but might be able to go as low as 200 Hz or lower, I don't know.
Is there any way to pull off a slim speaker with my driver choices?
I will make the 10" woofer sealed or ported. An optimum TL will be too large I think. If I can't make a slim speaker I think I might make a Avalon type clone. Might actually be better, now that I think about it, so kids don't knock it over. Although, I can always make the bottom wider with the slim speaker.
Seas 27TDFC - http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=149&products_id=792
CSS WR125S - http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/WR-FR125-measurements.pdf
SB Acoutics SB29NRX75-6 10" Woofer - http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=147&products_id=8303
I'm going to use an active computer controlled x-over. I would like to make the speaker 6-7 inches wide, but this means I would have to side mount the woofer. Or I could mount it at a 30 degree angle from the front of the woofer to the side panel. I would like to cross the mid to woofer around 300 Hz, but might be able to go as low as 200 Hz or lower, I don't know.
Is there any way to pull off a slim speaker with my driver choices?
I will make the 10" woofer sealed or ported. An optimum TL will be too large I think. If I can't make a slim speaker I think I might make a Avalon type clone. Might actually be better, now that I think about it, so kids don't knock it over. Although, I can always make the bottom wider with the slim speaker.
Interesting note about the SB woofer:
The sensitivity is taken at 31.6 cm at 2.83 Volts and is advertised at 88 "2.83V/1m" when is should be 10 dB less, I think. Or more accurately: the graph should be down 10 dB at 1 meter. What a bunch of dirty birdies, lol.
Also the Madisound specs differ from SB website specs.
I gave up on the idea of making the SB woofer side mounted.
Almost forgot, here's the graph: http://www.sbacoustics.com/images/10_graph.jpg
The sensitivity is taken at 31.6 cm at 2.83 Volts and is advertised at 88 "2.83V/1m" when is should be 10 dB less, I think. Or more accurately: the graph should be down 10 dB at 1 meter. What a bunch of dirty birdies, lol.
Also the Madisound specs differ from SB website specs.
I gave up on the idea of making the SB woofer side mounted.
Almost forgot, here's the graph: http://www.sbacoustics.com/images/10_graph.jpg
Yeah, I briefly thought that. But then I thought about the Dayton RSS265HO-4 which in it's specs boasts a 87 dB 2.83 V/1m and in the pdf a 84 dB 1 W/m, which makes sense, but it's graph shows it at maybe 82 dB, although it doesn't note the mic distance or power input.
The Sb Acoustics SB34NRX75-6, I think is more like 79 db at 2.83 Volts at 1 meter or slightly under 2W per meter. At 1W per meter it looks like it could be 76 dB.
I could measure it, but it doesn't matter to my speaker design. Both the SB34NRX75-6 and the Dayton RSS265HO-4 look liek they are about 80 dB at 2.83 Volts or 2W per meter, if tested on the same type of baffle.
The Sb Acoustics SB34NRX75-6, I think is more like 79 db at 2.83 Volts at 1 meter or slightly under 2W per meter. At 1W per meter it looks like it could be 76 dB.
I could measure it, but it doesn't matter to my speaker design. Both the SB34NRX75-6 and the Dayton RSS265HO-4 look liek they are about 80 dB at 2.83 Volts or 2W per meter, if tested on the same type of baffle.
I have the 6" SB Acoustics woofers (88-90dB in graph, mic at 31.6cm), but no SPL calibrated microphone. When I get my boxes, I'll have to see how great the difference in sensitivity is to Seas H1499 quoted at 92dB/2.83V/1m with graphs showing almost 95dB at high midrange. Luckily I'm going for a digital crossover so I don't have to deal with a possible 10dB+ difference in sensitivity
I will also be using an active cross-over, but I thought the claimed SB SPL was worth mentioning. It's a 10 dB lie. That's a lot of dBs to lie about lol -- I do have to hand it to them though, they did mention the mic distance and Voltage and Baffle type in the SPL graph.
Also I wanted to know whether I should use these specs at madisound or SB Acoustics to build my speakers. But I don't think any one can say which QMS and QES is correct. I guess I will have to go with madisound specs or measure them myself
Madisound:
Mechanical Q-factor (Qms) 8.4
Electrical Q-factor (Qes) 0.37
Total Q-factor (Qts) 0.36
SB website:
Mechanical Q-factor (Qms) 5.7
Electrical Q-factor (Qes) 0.38
Total Q-factor (Qts) 0.35
Also I wanted to know whether I should use these specs at madisound or SB Acoustics to build my speakers. But I don't think any one can say which QMS and QES is correct. I guess I will have to go with madisound specs or measure them myself
Madisound:
Mechanical Q-factor (Qms) 8.4
Electrical Q-factor (Qes) 0.37
Total Q-factor (Qts) 0.36
SB website:
Mechanical Q-factor (Qms) 5.7
Electrical Q-factor (Qes) 0.38
Total Q-factor (Qts) 0.35
I modeled both the parameters madisound's and SB's in dosbox. Not much difference according to the dosbox, especially for a tl as you (breez) stated.
I decided on a TL of 600 cm^2 cross-sectional area and 2 meters long. Dosbox does not have an input value for the distance of the woofer from the starting point of the line (28 cm I'm thinking). Is this really significant? I used to use MJK's worksheets to model some tls and they had some sort of driver position value. I don't notice much of a difference in response when changing the driver distance from the start of the line.
I will be using http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/ as the software (and firmware?) for the cross-over hopefully.
I guess I will make the midrange sealed. I also thought of making some type of resonance killing enclosure (variant of a tl?) for the mid, but I guess there is no room. I think I might try to draw this enclosure in Autocad before I make it. That might fill me with rage though
I decided on a TL of 600 cm^2 cross-sectional area and 2 meters long. Dosbox does not have an input value for the distance of the woofer from the starting point of the line (28 cm I'm thinking). Is this really significant? I used to use MJK's worksheets to model some tls and they had some sort of driver position value. I don't notice much of a difference in response when changing the driver distance from the start of the line.
I will be using http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/ as the software (and firmware?) for the cross-over hopefully.
I guess I will make the midrange sealed. I also thought of making some type of resonance killing enclosure (variant of a tl?) for the mid, but I guess there is no room. I think I might try to draw this enclosure in Autocad before I make it. That might fill me with rage though
How small can I make the enclosure for the WR125S high passed at around 300 Hz at 12 or 24 db, without hurting the sound quality?
I realize this is a moronic question. But I think it can be very small since I am high passing it at 300 Hz, 200 at the lowest. I don't think the Q of the box should matter too much.
I realize this is a moronic question. But I think it can be very small since I am high passing it at 300 Hz, 200 at the lowest. I don't think the Q of the box should matter too much.
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