Hi VHF man,
That was a very informative post. I was also considering the Raal but favour the increased efficiency of the T925A.
However, in Lynn's epic "Beyond the Ariel" thread there were some remarks that a 4 ohm 100db Raal 140-15 can be made.
Did you order the tweeter directly from the manafacturer or from Stones Sound Studio?
Cheers,
Rich
That was a very informative post. I was also considering the Raal but favour the increased efficiency of the T925A.
However, in Lynn's epic "Beyond the Ariel" thread there were some remarks that a 4 ohm 100db Raal 140-15 can be made.
Did you order the tweeter directly from the manafacturer or from Stones Sound Studio?
Cheers,
Rich
G'day Richard,
I actually did order via Russell at 'Stones' and I also purchased the crossover caps from him a few weeks later. I could have saved a few $$ buying from an OS supplier but I decided on the safer option. He is OK to deal with but sometimes there's a few days between e-mail responses because he spends long hours in the workshop.
As you have gathered I am now a big fan of the Raals. WRT efficiency they seem to be almost exactly as spec'd at about 94dB spl for 2.86V and although the voltage efficiency looks the same as the Raven R1's the power efficiency is obviously close to 6dB higher. I'm actually more than happy with the efficiency and at the moment I'm building a 30W pure class A amplifier to drive the tweeters separately. The Infinity's are not very efficient anyway (87 dB spl) and are 4 ohms, so a 30W tweeter amp will clip at the same time as the 240W LF/ MF class AB amp. Actually with normal music program the tweeters will never be anywhere near clipping. The idea of a 4 ohm Raal doesn't really appeal to me personally but I suppose if you have a 10W SET amp with a 4 ohm transformer then it's definitely going to be more attractive. FWIW the Raals have a slightly 'tubey' sound anyway, or at least that's 'IMO'. Most of the true ribbons I've heard also have a tubey character probably due to the dominating even order distortion. Having said that the Raals are a very low distortion tweeter with HDL2 at 0.2 - 0.3% and their character is extremely subtle, and I can't really be sure that what I'm hearing isn't from my pre or power amps anyway. As I remarked previously the attraction of the Raals is the total absence of any undesirable characteristic. The only negatives will relate to their vertical dispersion which is much more limited than a 1 inch dome. In my system they are working nicely with a planar midrange but they may not be well suited to many MF domes or cones. IMO it's very important to have a seamless transition from MF to HF with a smooth phase and frequency response. If you listen to Jazz there's nothing worse than a phasey sounding sax that also wanders around the sound stage.
Down the track I will experiment with active crossovers and ultimately with DSP but for the time being I'm happy with the passive approach which imposes less electronic stages and all in the analogue domain which is still my preference.
Regards,
David
I actually did order via Russell at 'Stones' and I also purchased the crossover caps from him a few weeks later. I could have saved a few $$ buying from an OS supplier but I decided on the safer option. He is OK to deal with but sometimes there's a few days between e-mail responses because he spends long hours in the workshop.
As you have gathered I am now a big fan of the Raals. WRT efficiency they seem to be almost exactly as spec'd at about 94dB spl for 2.86V and although the voltage efficiency looks the same as the Raven R1's the power efficiency is obviously close to 6dB higher. I'm actually more than happy with the efficiency and at the moment I'm building a 30W pure class A amplifier to drive the tweeters separately. The Infinity's are not very efficient anyway (87 dB spl) and are 4 ohms, so a 30W tweeter amp will clip at the same time as the 240W LF/ MF class AB amp. Actually with normal music program the tweeters will never be anywhere near clipping. The idea of a 4 ohm Raal doesn't really appeal to me personally but I suppose if you have a 10W SET amp with a 4 ohm transformer then it's definitely going to be more attractive. FWIW the Raals have a slightly 'tubey' sound anyway, or at least that's 'IMO'. Most of the true ribbons I've heard also have a tubey character probably due to the dominating even order distortion. Having said that the Raals are a very low distortion tweeter with HDL2 at 0.2 - 0.3% and their character is extremely subtle, and I can't really be sure that what I'm hearing isn't from my pre or power amps anyway. As I remarked previously the attraction of the Raals is the total absence of any undesirable characteristic. The only negatives will relate to their vertical dispersion which is much more limited than a 1 inch dome. In my system they are working nicely with a planar midrange but they may not be well suited to many MF domes or cones. IMO it's very important to have a seamless transition from MF to HF with a smooth phase and frequency response. If you listen to Jazz there's nothing worse than a phasey sounding sax that also wanders around the sound stage.
Down the track I will experiment with active crossovers and ultimately with DSP but for the time being I'm happy with the passive approach which imposes less electronic stages and all in the analogue domain which is still my preference.
Regards,
David
The PAC tweeter from the WLM, if it was kept away from the midrange and combined with a compression driver crossed at 5kHz.
Hi David,
Thanks for your reply. By all accounts the Raal is an excellent tweeter and it's on my list.
A 10W tube amp, that's very generous. I was thinking about 0.7 watts, hence my need for the greater efficiency.
I'm using a 99db Philips AD 5200M fullrange in an open baffle, but I reckon it needs to be crossed at about 6K.
I have a pair of Heil diaphrams from ESS, just need to build the tweeter around it. This should serve as a stop gap for a while.
Cheers,
Rich
Thanks for your reply. By all accounts the Raal is an excellent tweeter and it's on my list.
A 10W tube amp, that's very generous. I was thinking about 0.7 watts, hence my need for the greater efficiency.
I'm using a 99db Philips AD 5200M fullrange in an open baffle, but I reckon it needs to be crossed at about 6K.
I have a pair of Heil diaphrams from ESS, just need to build the tweeter around it. This should serve as a stop gap for a while.
Cheers,
Rich
Hi again Richard,
I didn't see this post when I wrote in wrote to you in the other thread but you've answered my questions.
0.7 watts is definitely not going to damage our emission targets. I think my preamp alone consumes about 5 watts. It sounds as though you have a reasonable temporary solution on the drawing boards but at the same time I don't think our environment will be affected if you stepped it up to a few watts at least for a future tweeter upgrade
Cheers,
David
I didn't see this post when I wrote in wrote to you in the other thread but you've answered my questions.
0.7 watts is definitely not going to damage our emission targets. I think my preamp alone consumes about 5 watts. It sounds as though you have a reasonable temporary solution on the drawing boards but at the same time I don't think our environment will be affected if you stepped it up to a few watts at least for a future tweeter upgrade
Cheers,
David
This is the best I've ever heard: Mundorf AMT 2340. A very tricky driver to handle with passover x-over, but definitively worth the effort.
I prefer the black faceplate though... darker background... 😀
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I prefer the black faceplate though... darker background... 😀
Willitwork said:
I got two pairs of these over the weekend after reading rave reviews. Run as dipole tweeter (back-to-back). I simply have no complaint about their sound and build quality! Massive.
Another favourite tweeter: Aura NSW2 run as omni as in Pluto. So lush!
Favorite super tweeter:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
StigErik said:
I agree completely. I use it in a dipole setup, then it sounds also superb when crossed lower than your recommendation (I cross at a relatively low 2100Hz.)
I cross at 2200 Hz for the time being, with a closed rear chamber.jeroen_d said:
Have you got any measurements of this driver in dipole? I was wondering if there was even more rolloff below 4 kHz without a rear chamber.
These are measurements on a small baffle (see my website), the upper one is at 1 meter, the lower one is at close range. The trend is the same, further away you see some diffraction and extra gain at the highest frequencies due to beaming. In dipole, the beaming is of no problem at all when listening above or below the tweeter.
The tweeter is completely free from stress at high playback levels. The sound is super realistic. The crossover problem is that such a precise driver needs to be perfectly tonally balanced by the crossover (taking into account its radiation pattern) to be able to show its real strength.
The tweeter is completely free from stress at high playback levels. The sound is super realistic. The crossover problem is that such a precise driver needs to be perfectly tonally balanced by the crossover (taking into account its radiation pattern) to be able to show its real strength.
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Jeroen, I've seen your website before. Nice dipole speaker.
The reason I asked, is that I'm into a dipole speaker design very soon, so I'd like to check out how the AMT tweeters behave in dipole. Looks like you get some boost in the lower end, and thats good.
For my dipole I will use a Beyma AMT (TPL150 without rear chamber), Seas Excel 8-inch (same as Linkwitz Orion), and a new (not yet officially released) Beyma 21-inch woofer with 30 mm Xmax. Active 3-way x-over. Should be cool!
I think we should consider a baffle with the same shape as yours. Looks very good I think.
The reason I asked, is that I'm into a dipole speaker design very soon, so I'd like to check out how the AMT tweeters behave in dipole. Looks like you get some boost in the lower end, and thats good.
For my dipole I will use a Beyma AMT (TPL150 without rear chamber), Seas Excel 8-inch (same as Linkwitz Orion), and a new (not yet officially released) Beyma 21-inch woofer with 30 mm Xmax. Active 3-way x-over. Should be cool!
I think we should consider a baffle with the same shape as yours. Looks very good I think.
PS never said it's better, just posted it up as my favourite.
But yes I do consider it better than these tweeters when used from 4khtz and up:
- Morel Supremo
- Vifa Ring Radiator
- Scanspeak 9500
- As well as a whole heap of tweeters that are below these three.
So all in all very suitable for use with small diameter mid range drivers on in dual tweeter setups for nice high frequency extension.
By super tweeter we mean 10-30khz or 5- 30 khz right? Then yes.
Thank you. 🙂StigErik said:
The Beyma looks very promising. It is nice to see that alternatives to the AMT2340 become available with a lower price tag.
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