I have some half way decent old 70's speakers (Sansui sp-5500x 4 way with 16" woofers, a couple 6"? mids, a horn tweeter and a super tweeter.)
They sound good, really good, and might sound even better with upgraded fresh caps in the crossovers and with better boxes with more internal volume to let the woofers really open up.
The drivers are in really good shape but the enclosures are ugly as sin, looked cheap when new with fake plastic wood veneer and much worse now that is't all peeling off. I think they may be beyond just veneering them or covering with laminate.
Reading and searching for info on them some suggest they are really pretty decent speakers and can flat out exceed the sq of more current speakers in the thousands of dollars range and higher. Not sure if this is really true or uninformed BS. Since I have not recapped the crossivers I probably can't really tell the full extent of what they may be capable of.
I am thinking of re-using the drivers in a tower configuration and building new high quality thick and massively heavy fully braced cabinets. (probably 200lbs plus ea when done due to a plan of partly covering them in some 1 foot by 2 foot granite tiles I have left over from the kitchen remodel. (I am thinking that all that heavy mass can only help with the sq) Designed properly I could have replaceable front panel so I could upgrade drivers later even in they are a different size or layout.
I have most of the materials already...
Anyone think it's a project worth doing or should I just hold off until I can afford better drivers?
I do plan to recap the crossovers if I use them.
Ideas? Thoughts? Better low budget alternatives?
They sound good, really good, and might sound even better with upgraded fresh caps in the crossovers and with better boxes with more internal volume to let the woofers really open up.
The drivers are in really good shape but the enclosures are ugly as sin, looked cheap when new with fake plastic wood veneer and much worse now that is't all peeling off. I think they may be beyond just veneering them or covering with laminate.
Reading and searching for info on them some suggest they are really pretty decent speakers and can flat out exceed the sq of more current speakers in the thousands of dollars range and higher. Not sure if this is really true or uninformed BS. Since I have not recapped the crossivers I probably can't really tell the full extent of what they may be capable of.
I am thinking of re-using the drivers in a tower configuration and building new high quality thick and massively heavy fully braced cabinets. (probably 200lbs plus ea when done due to a plan of partly covering them in some 1 foot by 2 foot granite tiles I have left over from the kitchen remodel. (I am thinking that all that heavy mass can only help with the sq) Designed properly I could have replaceable front panel so I could upgrade drivers later even in they are a different size or layout.
I have most of the materials already...
Anyone think it's a project worth doing or should I just hold off until I can afford better drivers?
I do plan to recap the crossovers if I use them.
Ideas? Thoughts? Better low budget alternatives?
Attachments
Imaging could be better. Honestly I don't have any really good amps yet. The best I have now is a Rotel rb-850 but it only pushes 50 watts per channel. It's a good 50 watts but these big suckers need more. Also I think the original caps in the crossovers are really holding them back too. I've read that they need to be re-capped with some panasonic (I think FC?) or better.
The layout of the drivers and size of cabinets is just not optimal.
Troy
The layout of the drivers and size of cabinets is just not optimal.
Troy
I have a pair of SP-1700's and have enjoyed them as rock speakers. The imaging, as you pointed out, is odd and there is obvious combing in the midrange due to the dual wide-spaced midranges. I think the best feature of these speakers is the woofer, the cabinets are aperiodically loaded and the bass is very natural sounding.
Your 5500's look like they have better midranges than my 1700's. I support your proposal to make a new cabinet for your speakers, paying attention to modern design knowledge like diffraction control. I think the best opportunity for improvement in your redesign will be with the midrange and tweeter placement, and possibly a new tweeter altogether.
You will almost certainly have to tweak the crossover for your new enclosures. A good start would be to diagram the old crossover to see what you have to work with.
I'm also not sure about the whole tileing the loudspeaker thing. Maybe it would work, but I would be worried that the vibrations would cause the tiles to eventually come loose. Just throw together some baltic birch plywood cabinets and use clever bracing, then stuff them with insulation to taste.
Good luck with the project!
Your 5500's look like they have better midranges than my 1700's. I support your proposal to make a new cabinet for your speakers, paying attention to modern design knowledge like diffraction control. I think the best opportunity for improvement in your redesign will be with the midrange and tweeter placement, and possibly a new tweeter altogether.
You will almost certainly have to tweak the crossover for your new enclosures. A good start would be to diagram the old crossover to see what you have to work with.
I'm also not sure about the whole tileing the loudspeaker thing. Maybe it would work, but I would be worried that the vibrations would cause the tiles to eventually come loose. Just throw together some baltic birch plywood cabinets and use clever bracing, then stuff them with insulation to taste.
Good luck with the project!
Drivers look good...problems with imaging is probably due to messy front baffle layout...and the xo design
It may have helped if they had been mirror imaged...and maybe put on their sides...fore that you would only need a new front baffle design...yeah, I like this old style monitor look, and I am in the process of building such a thing
It may have helped if they had been mirror imaged...and maybe put on their sides...fore that you would only need a new front baffle design...yeah, I like this old style monitor look, and I am in the process of building such a thing
I've put many of these woofers aside for future use. As long as the surround hasn't gone stiff, these Atomix woofers are 1st rate. Efficiency is usually pretty good, so not a lot of power is needed, but the boxes are woefully small.
These are classic from the time when the Japanese speaker's arm race was predicated on the more was, the better. If you want to recycle the drivers, a 3-way, 3 driver with a new XO is the way to go.
dave
These are classic from the time when the Japanese speaker's arm race was predicated on the more was, the better. If you want to recycle the drivers, a 3-way, 3 driver with a new XO is the way to go.
dave
Do your Sansui's have a switch that switches off one of the midranges? Mine do, and the imaging improves dramatically when just one midrange is playing.
I agree with Dave above, and also think that you could still see a positive change by just improving the driver layout with the existing drivers. I would put the midrange and tweeter drivers in a vertical array. Midrange, Supertweeter, Tweeter, Midrange in that order vertically. You could probably keep your existing crossover and still hear improvements over the old cabinets.
The next step up (and the one that I recommend) would be to find a good soft dome tweeter (maybe by looking at the comparisons at www.zaphaudio.com) and make a three way like Dave described. I like the Seas 27TDFC, but they are getting more expensive every quarter with the dollar going to cr@p. You might be able to reuse the midrange section of the crossover if it has the option to switch out one of the midranges, but you would need to find out what the upper crossover frequency is and design a tweeter crossover to match.
A further upgrade would be to replace the midrange and the tweeter and rework the whole crossover. This would also require that you invest in at least a basic level of measurement capability (about $40-80 worth of equipment and a good bit of time to learn how to use it).
A different path would be to keep the woofer for the bottom end and go with a full range driver for the top end. This is not my forte and I would defer to folks like planet10 to guide you through that.
Ultimately, your preferences will shape the outcome of this project and the best we can do is give you advice from our respective positions of expertise. This means we need to know what those preferences are, as well as what tools you are interested in learning to use (such as measurement equipment or woodworking tools). Let us know and we will be here to help.
Regards,
David
I agree with Dave above, and also think that you could still see a positive change by just improving the driver layout with the existing drivers. I would put the midrange and tweeter drivers in a vertical array. Midrange, Supertweeter, Tweeter, Midrange in that order vertically. You could probably keep your existing crossover and still hear improvements over the old cabinets.
The next step up (and the one that I recommend) would be to find a good soft dome tweeter (maybe by looking at the comparisons at www.zaphaudio.com) and make a three way like Dave described. I like the Seas 27TDFC, but they are getting more expensive every quarter with the dollar going to cr@p. You might be able to reuse the midrange section of the crossover if it has the option to switch out one of the midranges, but you would need to find out what the upper crossover frequency is and design a tweeter crossover to match.
A further upgrade would be to replace the midrange and the tweeter and rework the whole crossover. This would also require that you invest in at least a basic level of measurement capability (about $40-80 worth of equipment and a good bit of time to learn how to use it).
A different path would be to keep the woofer for the bottom end and go with a full range driver for the top end. This is not my forte and I would defer to folks like planet10 to guide you through that.
Ultimately, your preferences will shape the outcome of this project and the best we can do is give you advice from our respective positions of expertise. This means we need to know what those preferences are, as well as what tools you are interested in learning to use (such as measurement equipment or woodworking tools). Let us know and we will be here to help.
Regards,
David
I would rebuild the baffle, use MTM with the Vifa neo tweeter for the closest possible spacing and make sure they are mirror image pairs, if you use the Vifa neo you should not need a super tweeter.
Alternatively build a new box for the mids and set them on top of the old box in their own smallish enclosure.
How big is that mid-range?? I ask as they look similar to some I had in an old Tandy speaker and they happened to be Coral's and very nice.
Alternatively build a new box for the mids and set them on top of the old box in their own smallish enclosure.
How big is that mid-range?? I ask as they look similar to some I had in an old Tandy speaker and they happened to be Coral's and very nice.
Opinions on Audiokarma Exclusively Sansui forum vary, but it seems that the bass drivers would benefit from a larger enclosure. Also, when they went from the 5500 to the 5500x, they went from plywood/veneer to particle board/plastic veneer. And others have suggested that the image works better if you remove one of the midranges (disconnect or remove it and stuff the hole with fibreglass - I said opinions vary).
As these were made towards the end of Sansui's 'golden period' (I still use an AU-X1 integrated from that period), the pieces are probably very good. Just the whole integration of the speaker might be a bit suspect.
I think you'll find that re-building them, with a larger box for the base, and with the horn tweeter mounted sideways between the 2 midranges, and the supertweeter of to the side a little - might be very worthwhile. Try out some formats of all the 4 'non-bass' drivers on some spare sheets of thin ply to see what sounds promising first.
I don't think the Japanese has a version of this particular speaker, and the only speakers they did have, with two side-by-side midranges, had them mounted angled in to each other, like this.
As these were made towards the end of Sansui's 'golden period' (I still use an AU-X1 integrated from that period), the pieces are probably very good. Just the whole integration of the speaker might be a bit suspect.
I think you'll find that re-building them, with a larger box for the base, and with the horn tweeter mounted sideways between the 2 midranges, and the supertweeter of to the side a little - might be very worthwhile. Try out some formats of all the 4 'non-bass' drivers on some spare sheets of thin ply to see what sounds promising first.
I don't think the Japanese has a version of this particular speaker, and the only speakers they did have, with two side-by-side midranges, had them mounted angled in to each other, like this.
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