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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:15 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by graaf View Post
I am not sure what You mean by a meaningful way but I have a CFS here in my home and so has el'Ol and we have tried some options and some placements in room
I have also tried SLS (stereolith-like-setup) and I built three different versions of that stereolith thing

And You cannot read about it in Wittek, Toole or anywhere else

The only technical article I know that mentions SLS is Manger diskus patent description. I don't know any technical articles that mention CFS.

but I just have built it and it works

best,
graaf
Have you gained any knowledge from your tests other than you like "it" better? We already know that reflections change the spatial perception but know nothing more meaningful beyond that. I think I already said this some thousand posts ago...
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:25 PM   #942
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
The time writing spectulative posts without gaining any knowledge is much better invested reading stuff like Witteks thesis or Toole's http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...ions/13686.pdf. If you really want to learn something, it doesn't get any easier than this.
Toole's paper is a nice read. I think I will buy his book.

But I will become speculative again, nevertheless:
What Toole says about the credibitiy of the image, reflections with same spectrum are not recognised as individual sources, nobody doubts this is true with one source. But in stereo reproduction in the same time it has to be incredible that the speakers are the sources.
Do your speakers disappear when one is playing mono?
I speculate that the following could be the cause for the "reach out and touch effect": The focus of a stereo phantom source is sharper than the image a single speaker is producing alone.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:26 PM   #943
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Now it's about what text you like more?? Virginia Ann Best speaks about natural sound sources.
yes, exactly, I think that we have to take inti account the way the hearing works with natural sound sources if we want to know how the audible illusions work

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We are talking about phantom sound sources in multichannel sound reproduction.
?
who exactly is talking about multichannel in this thread?

best,
graaf
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:28 PM   #944
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who exactly is talking about multichannel in this thread?
Everybody. Stereo IS multichannel.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:29 PM   #945
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Have you gained any knowledge from your tests other than you like "it" better?
o yes! substantial knowledge!

for example now I know that the sound is not coming from the floor

and that is something that You don't know

I wonder whether Dr Wittek knows this, or Dr Toole?
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:31 PM   #946
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Everybody. Stereo IS multichannel.
o yes indeed - excuse me

and Dr Toole
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Last edited by graaf; 23rd March 2010 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:43 PM   #947
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for example now I know that the sound is not coming from the floor
If you now could explain why, then this would be "substantial" knowledge.
By the way, it's pretty obvious why the sound is not coming from the floor. Kill the ceiling reflection with an open cell absorber and listen again.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:47 PM   #948
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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not boosting as such but high volumes
anyway - in the near-corner placement of the flooder just 6 dB boost @50 Hz and below would make me happy
that is not heavy boosting, or is it?
Doesn't sound that wild. I just thought Sony and the others won't allow the people to run micro-satellites fullrange.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:48 PM   #949
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Do your speakers disappear when one is playing mono?
yes, single flooder disappears

Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
I speculate that the following could be the cause for the "reach out and touch effect": The focus of a stereo phantom source is sharper than the image a single speaker is producing alone.
probably
BTW I posted similar thoughts somewhere earlier in this thread (or stereolith thread?)
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Old 23rd March 2010, 09:54 PM   #950
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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we never ever hear the frequency content of the direct sound as such
it is completely irrelevant as such
in terms of frequency content we hear a sum of direct sound and all reflections
therefore indirect sound can in a sense correct not-flat [direct] FR
According to the Toole paper this is only true for sounds within a certain time window (fusion zone). So the truth is somewhere between your statement and Markus' suggestion to isolate just the direct sound by gating.
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