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Old 22nd April 2008, 10:27 PM   #71
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MisterTwister, you read my mind

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Old 1st May 2008, 05:28 PM   #72
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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graaf,

I listened to these speakers the other day.

http://www.bremen.se/main/HT12.0/HT12.0.html

Same positioning as your set up.. only higher up on the wall.. about ear height.

Nice dissapearing act.


/Peter
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Old 2nd May 2008, 10:47 PM   #73
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pan
graaf,

I listened to these speakers the other day.

http://www.bremen.se/main/HT12.0/HT12.0.html

interesting idea, thanks for the link
they remind me of Beloab 3, which can also be hanged at the opposite walls

best,
graaf
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Old 8th May 2008, 09:38 PM   #74
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I am working since some years by the topic loudspeaker and room as one system . My idea was to resizing the playback room virtually. The playback room dimensions become include into a wave field synthesis approach. The approach needs a huge speaker field behind the screenwall. It aimed retards the radiation of dedicated wavefronts.
Per example: If your playback room lower as the opera house, the speaker field retards the ceyling reflection radiation until its arrive in the same temporal behaviour regarding the direct wave as in the opera house. The same by all wall reflections creating the size impression of the opera.
It works in principle likely the sound projectors, but by enlarged wall and not producing virtually loudspeakers, but the source itself, henceforth.
The procedure is patented, but isnt purchasable until. Is described on the www.syntheticwave.de website.
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Old 8th May 2008, 10:27 PM   #75
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by syntheticwave
I am working since some years by the topic loudspeaker and room as one system .
(...)
Is described on the www.syntheticwave.de website.
very interesting but if I understand correctly the information contained at this website: http://www.syntheticwave.de/Wave-Fie...production.htm
it is not yet feasible in practice?

Quote:
It would be possible by the state of art, but the effort would be huge. For widely aliasing free reproduction would be need 1296 single loudspeakers, each guided by own microprocessor, D/A and an amplifier.
wow! 1296 loudspeakers?
great idea but appears to be completely impractical

best,
graaf
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Old 9th May 2008, 04:13 AM   #76
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why?
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Old 9th May 2008, 05:36 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by graaf


very interesting but if I understand correctly the information contained at this website: http://www.syntheticwave.de/Wave-Fie...production.htm
it is not yet feasible in practice?
...it would be feasible, no technical constrains remain. But it would be a huge effort. No producer wants to bear the risk for invest in a prototype because all say it wouldn't be a market for such expensive installations. I am by other opinion, but that doesn't matter.


Quote:
Originally posted by graaf

wow! 1296 loudspeakers?
great idea but appears to be completely impractical

best,
graaf
No, why? If you take 2 watt speakers you can produce sound pressures far beyond the pain limit. Because of the good air resistance adaption of the huge resulting diaphragm only very small elevations would be needed. A partitioned layer membrane as electrostat would be a payable solution.
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Old 9th May 2008, 10:25 AM   #78
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Hello Helmut!

I read that the Fraunhofer Institute is trying to switch to NXT speakers to keep the number of speakers lower without risking lobing. Recently I heard the Göbel at the Highend in Munich this year, and I find it does VERY well, apart from the instable imaging and the fact that it comes to its limits even before reaching full "room level".


Oliver
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Old 9th May 2008, 11:58 AM   #79
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by syntheticwave


No, why? If you take 2 watt speakers you can produce sound pressures far beyond the pain limit. Because of the good air resistance adaption of the huge resulting diaphragm only very small elevations would be needed. A partitioned layer membrane as electrostat would be a payable solution.
imagine manufacturing process of a device comprising 1296 speakers, imagine cost of assembly, of shipment, complexity of the issue of installation if such a device at home (in a special dedicated room only?)

so yes, technically it is feasible
but economically and commercially it will never be I'm afraid

fortunately it doesn't mean that nothing can be improved

in this thread we're discussing various solutions that take into account the issues of loudspeaker and room (normal living room) interaction to achieve much better results in terms of naturalness and realism of spatial presentation of sound than standard solutions

fortunately 1296 speakers with special electronics are not neeeded for that - in fact stategically positioned just two fullrange drivers without special electronics can do the job

best,
graaf
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Old 9th May 2008, 04:39 PM   #80
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MisterTwister
how about front horn enclosure placed in the corner, closely coupled to walls. whole room would work as horn.
I don't think that this is a good idea. While the bass OUTPUT would be enhanced this way, the corners are not good places for the mids and highs, they need to be moved further into the room away from the walls etc. and closer together than the corners.

Best is to just seperate the lows from the rest and deal with them seperately - they are seperate acoustical problems anyways. The mains can go low in freq, but they must be augmented with widely dispersed subs. And horns, while great fro higher frequencies, aren't much of an advantage for LFs. When multiple subs are used each sub deos not have to be that big - you make up for level through quantity.
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