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Old 17th March 2010, 06:50 AM   #731
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
I hesitated to confess I have that CD.
(...)
I had almost forgotten I have a CD from him.
but which CDs? I was not refering to particular recordings just to very different performers as typical examples of very different auditory spaces
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Old 17th March 2010, 07:24 AM   #732
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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En Attendant - Mala Punica (Arcana)
Klaus Schulze - Are you sequenced?
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Old 17th March 2010, 07:29 AM   #733
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
I linked Pfleiderer to show you that all these ideas and practices are not new to me. His book - I still have it - introduces a couple of ideas that he dumped later on. So did Moulton, Carlsson, etc. That's just how this audiphool circus works.
I never listened to Sonab speakers (the ones whith the multiple cone tweeters). I wonder whether Stig Carlsson switched to the design I use because it is better or because he could use just one modern dome tweeter.
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Old 17th March 2010, 07:42 AM   #734
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
En Attendant - Mala Punica (Arcana)
Klaus Schulze - Are you sequenced?
I have En Attendant somewhere but my favourite is Missa Cantilena, as to musical quality, well, de gustibus est non disputandum
I don't remember En Attendant well from sound qualityperspective but Missa Cantilena spatially was not bad
As to Schulze my favourite is Timewind and I use that CD for test purposes, among many others like Kind of Blue for example, therefore I was refering also to Davis

best,
graaf
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Old 17th March 2010, 08:30 AM   #735
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
I never listened to Sonab speakers (the ones whith the multiple cone tweeters). I wonder whether Stig Carlsson switched to the design I use because it is better or because he could use just one modern dome tweeter.
perhaps He just experimentally came to the conclusion that his final design with slanted top (the OA50-58 series) is better than the older one Shahinian-like with multiple tweeters

when one cannot find clear instructions what to do in the books (because we cannot qualify what we can quantify ) one HAS TO experiment, and it's hit-and-miss in the end

the only alternative is fetishization of someone else's experience like mainstream pros for example
but the problem is that their priorities can be different and in consequence it makes their experimentally proven methods irrelevant in a different perspective

best,
graaf
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Last edited by graaf; 17th March 2010 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 17th March 2010, 04:20 PM   #736
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by LineArray View Post
To make a speaker less room dependent and deliver balanced frequency response in a variety of listening rooms, controled - if not constant - directivity is IMO a major goal to achieve.
Seconded majorley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LineArray View Post
Of course such a speaker my have a problem to disappear itself as a detectable sound source, especially if the spatial information of the recording is deficient or the recording has significant flaws
as sybilance and the like.
There are some interesting "room tweaks" that can help by creating very weak harmonically coupled secondary sources (the infamous harmonica plate tweak or related items) and thus "detract attention" from the signle source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LineArray View Post
The "controled directivity highly direct radiating speaker" is more revealing concerning concerning those deficiencies
And hence are often found where exposing such is part of the Job (Studio's, reviewers etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LineArray View Post
Since experimenting with DML i know that both worlds can be mated to a degree nearly impossible with conventional speakers.
Interesting. Which implementations have you compared? I find the units I encountered way too compromised in many major areas (no bass, no dynamic range, not SPL handling) to enjoy them.

Ciao T
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Old 17th March 2010, 06:50 PM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
...
There are some interesting "room tweaks" that can help by creating very weak harmonically coupled secondary sources (the infamous harmonica plate tweak or related items) and thus "detract attention" from the signle source.
...
Have you got some links or pics ? I know only of the usual absorbers
and diffusers ...
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Old 17th March 2010, 08:24 PM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
overall interesting analysis but the above quoted statements are simply false with regard to my ceiling flooder

localization and focus of transient sounds like drums, cymbals and
consonants is actually quite stunning, to say simply realistic would be injustice to what I can hear, stunning is the right word

best,
graaf
OK, just for fun we could organize a contest with different
disciplines:

- Built the ultimate Klaus Schulze Speaker
- Built the ultimate Kraftwerk Speaker
...

My best Klaus Schulze speaker i built with a friend of mine
>25 years ago.

It was a 180 degree omi design with a fat folded TL,
bass driver mass loaded over bottom tuned at about 20 Hz,
a 180 degree midrange horn with a cylinder jacket shaped mouth,
and - yes - a tweeter firing towards the ceiling.

A good Kraftwerk speaker e.g. has to look very different IMO ...
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Old 17th March 2010, 09:40 PM   #739
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
localization and focus of transient sounds like drums, cymbals and consonants is actually quite stunning, to say simply [I realistic[/I] would be injustice to what I can hear, stunning is the right word
Quote:
Originally Posted by LineArray View Post
OK, just for fun we could organize a contest with different
disciplines:

- Built the ultimate Klaus Schulze Speaker
- Built the ultimate Kraftwerk Speaker
...
fun is Ok.

but seriously - what are You talking about?

where do You have "drums, cymbals and consonants" on a typical Schulze?

and let me repeat once again:
with ceiling flooder I experience much more diverse auditory spaces from recording to recording than in case of conventional stereo which in comparison sounds always just more or less flat
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Last edited by graaf; 17th March 2010 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:21 PM   #740
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Hi,
And hence are often found where exposing such is part of the Job (Studio's,
perhaps out of habit?

Quote:
An interesting comment by Toole is that professionals might become
accustomed to their control room sounds and end up preferring that simply
out of habit
a comment from: Early reflections or not - Gearslutz.com

because on the other hand (also from gearslutz):
Quote:
I've spent the past few hours listening to music without my usual early reflection absorbing side panels. I have to say it's an interesting experience. Everything certainly sounds wider, though a sum to mono is still a very small point in space in front of me. The really interesting thing is that great recordings still sound great, if a bit more open, but mixes that were on the edge of being too strident or brittle are unbearable. That could make it a hard choice to live with for the long term. OTOH, a good monitoring system is supposed to reveal problems...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Interesting. Which implementations have you compared? I find the units I encountered way too compromised in many major areas (no bass, no dynamic range, not SPL handling) to enjoy them.
yes, it is strange, DMLs are around for quite a while with no visible success
I wonder why? Are they really so bad?

Quote:
controled - if not constant - directivity
below an illustration of an evolution of thinking - from controlled to constant

or was it just another "audiophool"?

best,
graaf
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File Type: jpg citationcab1.jpg (63.3 KB, 111 views)
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Last edited by graaf; 17th March 2010 at 10:27 PM.
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