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Old 19th April 2008, 09:17 PM   #51
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by c2cthomas


At my age it could come in handy for a nap!
another great idea!

best,
graaf
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Old 21st April 2008, 10:40 AM   #52
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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>What about an array of speakers along each wall - the left wall being the left channel - the right wall being the right etc. and using like 4 or 5 speakers placed along each wall (aimed upwards to reflect off of baffles) - perhaps with a variable delay line for each speaker?


In the early 70s Ted Jordan wrote an article describing a system which used a line of 20+ fullrange units along the wall in front of the listener. The driver at each end faced the listener, the others all faced down and they were linked by delay components. I don't know that he pursued it because he moved onto his linear array systems.

The long line was meant to address stereo imaging rather than room acoustics. The same article describes a cut down version which used a central group of drivers and reflectors left and right. 20 years ago I thought that worked quite well but I haven't tried it recently with more revealing components.


Interesting discussion, chaps. It's too easy to forget about the room and DIYers have a much better chance of doing something interesting to make the speaker and room fit better.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:03 PM   #53
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Colin - Thank you for that bit of information - interesting, I guess that it is true that everything that's old is new again. Well - if I'm thinking along the lines of TJ (hmmm…… my initials are TJ as well - hmmm……….nah - forget it) then it's all good - even if I am 20 years late.

This sort of project might give me an excuse to try out some of his JXR6 HD's in a line array and do a poor mans version of a Beveridge type of speaker arrangement. I guess it's a good thing that I don't have gobs of money sitting around - I would need to buy a second house to put all my audio gear in!
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:27 PM   #54
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by c2cthomas


This sort of project might give me an excuse to try out some of his JXR6 HD's in a line array and do a poor mans version of a Beveridge type of speaker arrangement.
perhaps a VMPS sort of waveguide could be employed to lower the horizontal directivity of such a line array and to have more uniform and wide horizontal polar response?

http://www.vmpsaudio.com/

Beveridge also used waveguides for that purpose

best,
graaf
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:54 PM   #55
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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Ted's array is intended to be directional, to give the precedence effect he prefers for a stable stereo image. He then prefers to wall mount the drivers to reduce baffle step requirements and rear reflections. In his own system, the two arrays are widely separated, almost in the room corners, so the image does hold over a wide horizontal area. I've heard it a number of times and the only downside is mild loss of HF when your ears are significantly above the level of the array. (Albeit this is listening quite close to the array - farther back may have less effect on HF.)

But this may be getting off topic ...
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Old 21st April 2008, 05:38 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by graaf

perhaps a VMPS sort of waveguide could be employed to lower the horizontal directivity of such a line array and to have more uniform and wide horizontal polar response?
http://www.vmpsaudio.com/
Beveridge also used waveguides for that purpose
best,
graaf
Hi graff - I have always admired the waveguide concept used on the VMPS line of speakers - I think it was just a couple of years ago that they came out with that?
I have had the Beveridge patent on file for quite some time now as a result of looking at another design for electrostatic speakers and waveguides. At first look I could not figure out what all of the slots and guides were about - until I read his theory on audio wave propagation - then things came together. I visited the Beveridge web site yesterday - it's good to see that he and the company are still around and making things. It's all to rare that an individual can start out in the audio business and still be making a go of things 20 or 30 years later.
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Old 21st April 2008, 05:54 PM   #57
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Colin, do you know any specific detalis with regards to TJ`s array ?
e.g distance/delay between drivers, the freq. range covered by delayed drivers, does all drivers play at the same level ?

A poor mans version could use Jordan`s for the line array and cheap Tangband`s for the delay-line...

JB
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Old 21st April 2008, 07:21 PM   #58
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by Colin
Ted's array is intended to be directional, to give the precedence effect he prefers for a stable stereo image. He then prefers to wall mount the drivers to reduce baffle step requirements and rear reflections. In his own system, the two arrays are widely separated, almost in the room corners, so the image does hold over a wide horizontal area. I've heard it a number of times and the only downside is mild loss of HF when your ears are significantly above the level of the array. (Albeit this is listening quite close to the array - farther back may have less effect on HF.)

But this may be getting off topic ...
not at all
high directivity speaker in (or close to) a room corner and significant toe-in is also a reasonable method of dealing with early relfections, of "speaker-room interface", like in case of classic corner horns
this can be achieved also with "matrix" (I am not sure of the word) array like 4x4, I mean like this:
o o o o
o o o o
o o o o
o o o o
especially on an open baffle
Beveridge is different - a line source, low directivity speaker on the opposite walls
in a corner - high directivity, on the opposite walls - low directivity
it makes sense both ways
and to this let's add:
Schupbach - Stereolith (with reservation concerning incompatibility with some recordings)
Carlsson - omni just above the floor and close to the same long wall or in corners
my humble proposition - omni just above the floor and against opposite walls
etc. etc.
all good ideas (or at least I hope - this remark refers to my own idea )

it's all about consistency in applying them

and there is more!
and what about JBL Paragon "reflecting" principle for example?

many, many interesting and reasoned alternatives to industry standard equilateral stereo triangle with speakers 2 feet away from walls, which is a standard that lacks any theoretical foundations and only drives "Acoustic Treatment Accessories" industry

best,
graaf
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Old 21st April 2008, 08:46 PM   #59
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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>Colin, do you know any specific detalis with regards to TJ`s array ?


Hi - I have the original article but there are no specifics about the delay components. The line was horizontal, using up to 20 drivers per side. They were 4 inch units (probably Jordan Watts modules, precursors of the JX92) placed closed together and all apart from the end units facing down. It was designed to look like a shelf (this was 70s decor, remember!). The units were used full range. He wasn't specifically selling his own units in the article but the Jordans satisfied the directivity criteria for it to work. So in theory, other units would work if they matched the criteria.

The current linear array, I presume, supercedes this. In one of the earlier Jordan manuals, Ted talks of using multiple 50mm units to control directivity in, for example, auditoria.

A point I've read is that the sound can seem more natural if the speakers are hidden and the listener is less conscious of the physical sound sources.
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Old 21st April 2008, 09:22 PM   #60
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by Colin

A point I've read is that the sound can seem more natural if the speakers are hidden and the listener is less conscious of the physical sound sources.
did Jordan wrote this?
I ask because this is exactly the conclusion I have come to after my own experiments

as I have written above in this thread, about the secret of peudo-ambiopole (Stereolith) being that:
Quote:
our hearing is unable to locate the speakers as a distinct sources of sound
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