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Old 23rd February 2010, 07:28 PM   #521
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Sure you can make it more realistic if the goal of each and every paintings has to be photorealism. What about the art? It gets destroyed in that process.
The analogy should be a recording of music to a picture (photo) of a painting, so yes the picture should be photo realistic, or as realistic (close to the original painting) as you can make it.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 07:35 PM   #522
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Hello,

"Pin point imaging" is not essential for the survival of the species. It is enough to auditorily sense the rough direction of the sound after where the eyes are focused to find out the details.

When I go to concert I hardly "image" anything. I hear the sound and I see the artists Often times you are located far away from the stage so all the sound comes from a ten degree angle and the reverberance is gross. What is there left to image auditorily?

I want to share this, I'm not very much interested about "imaging" at all. I'm much more interested about listening the acoustics of the original venue. I'm addicted to the reverberance tail!! Anytime there is a silent moment in the recording the bliss of extacy takes place - One can enjoy the sense of space due to the reverberance. THIS is the thing that takes me to the original venue - Not anykind of "imaging".

- Elias


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Originally Posted by graaf View Post
what if "precise pinpoint imaging" is in reality just an artefact that is indeed produced only when some special conditions are met like "no VERs"?
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Old 23rd February 2010, 07:47 PM   #523
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Ambiophonics will be better

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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
One word: multichannel.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 07:54 PM   #524
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You might have seen this coming: I tried ambiophonics - terrible! Monstrously deformed, intransparent and highly colored sound. Like listening with some else's ears that has a seriously damaged hearing.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 07:56 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by Elias View Post
One might copy the "average control room" into his listening room. That would mean yamaha minimonitors placed below your ear hight at about 1 meter distance on the top of the mixing console?? You copy this to your listening room, by placing 2-way bookshelf speakers on a tilted table located below your nose. Throw a bucket of Legos on the table to mimick the reflection pattern from the control room mixing console knobs. Be sited on a swivel chair, make sure you cannot stay still for a second.

Only then you are able to hear what the (average) mixing engineer was hearing.

Not going to happen in any domestic situations.
This thread is about treating the room and the speakers as a system.
If you want to try and duplicate "what the engineer heard", you do NOT want to duplicate the mixing engineer's environment. You want to duplicate the mastering engineer's environment.

Here's a good one.
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Note the effort put into the design and treatment of the room and integration with the speakers. How many followers of this thread can honestly say they have put in an equal amount of effort in ther own systems?
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Old 23rd February 2010, 08:05 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Hello,

"Pin point imaging" is not essential for the survival of the species. It is enough to auditorily sense the rough direction of the sound after where the eyes are focused to find out the details.

When I go to concert I hardly "image" anything. I hear the sound and I see the artists Often times you are located far away from the stage so all the sound comes from a ten degree angle and the reverberance is gross. What is there left to image auditorily?

I want to share this, I'm not very much interested about "imaging" at all. I'm much more interested about listening the acoustics of the original venue. I'm addicted to the reverberance tail!! Anytime there is a silent moment in the recording the bliss of extacy takes place - One can enjoy the sense of space due to the reverberance. THIS is the thing that takes me to the original venue - Not anykind of "imaging".

- Elias
You're missing the point. Pinpoint imaging is only one of the many auditory events optimal sound reproduction needs to be capable of.

By the way: I believe that localization is THE most important feature of our hearing and was crucial for our survival.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 08:14 PM   #527
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This thread is about treating the room and the speakers as a system.
If you want to try and duplicate "what the engineer heard", you do NOT want to duplicate the mixing engineer's environment. You want to duplicate the mastering engineer's environment.

Here's a good one.
About Us
Best case, mastering has no impact on the auditory events saved in a recording. Worst case, mastering ruins everything ("loudness war").

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Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
Note the effort put into the design and treatment of the room and integration with the speakers. How many followers of this thread can honestly say they have put in an equal amount of effort in ther own systems?
Me Did you read Bob's book?
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Old 23rd February 2010, 09:00 PM   #528
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Stereo imaging is an artefact. There is no case in evolution where survival of the species could have benefited from the phantom imaging. It's a rear case where our prehistoric ancestor in the savannah would have encountered two lions exactly at the same distance forming a 60 degree angle and lions producing exactly the same roar at the exact time for the ancestor to perceive a 'phantom image' of only one lion being present in directly in front. My goodness, if that would have happened we wouldn't be here today to disscuss about this!

Stereo is based on this artefact, as are 5.1, 7.1, x.x.... They are based on something that is not inherently the purpose of the human hearing.

- Elias
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Old 23rd February 2010, 09:11 PM   #529
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You're missing the point again. We are talking about pinpoint localization. It is something that is very real. Have you never perceived it with natural sound sources? Maybe you should go more outside like our ancestors had to
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Old 23rd February 2010, 09:17 PM   #530
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
They are based on something that is not inherently the purpose of the human hearing.
yes, exactly therefore the trick works!
because stereo is a trick, an illusion

this illusion can be illusion of something that can be experienced in reality or an illusion of something that can never or almost never be experienced in reality - good example of the latter is "pinpoint imaging" of musical sound sources
while "pinpoint imaging" can perhaps be experienced as such under certain rarely met conditions eg. in the snow-covered field, the real question is who is listening to any kind of music in the snow-covered field?

therefore I call pinpoint imaging of musical sound sources in stereo sound system an artefact
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