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Old 23rd February 2010, 02:33 PM   #491
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Hello,

In the content of "Loudspeakers and room as a system" I make a statement according to which I estimate that about 100% of the psychoacoustic studies conducted withing a small room acoustics (or even large room, for that matter) are done using monopole loudspeakers.

The rest 0% of the studies consists of those done by semi pro aficionados, including many Diyaudio members, that tries to get the pieces to lock together for them. They may see the problem from different angle than those making the research for living. Clearly the DIY has the benefit for the loudspeaker point of view in that more options than just conventional monopoles are considered.

Then when considering the objectivity of the available small room psycho acoustic studies in the literature, one should not forget the built-in bias of the results because monopoles were used in the first place.

- Elias
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Old 23rd February 2010, 02:56 PM   #492
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The consumer does not care what the engineer intended. Consumer wants to hear the performance - i.e. the reason to buy the records.
Not every consumer is that ignorant to the art. Most recordings are multitracked and use instruments that don't exist in nature. How would anybody define "the performance" here? The artificial recording IS the performance. If you alter that, then you alter the art.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 03:18 PM   #493
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Standardization

Some people might think that standardization means less freedom. The opposite is true. A painter uses the color green in his paintings. He uses that color because he believes that everybody else will see green too, not blue or yellow nor anything else. That's what standards are for. They provide a framework that enables the art.

Only standardization can break audio's circle of confusion and provide such a framework (or multiple frameworks). The alternative is what we have now. A lot of different frameworks that don't translate optimally to typical domestic listening spaces.

Cinema sound is a good example for a working framework.

High and constant directivity

Control rooms differ but domestic listening spaces differ much more. Most control room designs try to "dim" the room, they attenuate and delay first reflections. That led to massive use of absorption, flush mounted loudspeakers and near field monitoring.

High and constant directivity loudpseakers in domestic listening spaces (that can't be freely altered) provide a sound field that is much more similar to that of the "typical" control room. No other loudspeaker concept is capable of that.

Best, Markus
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Old 23rd February 2010, 03:28 PM   #494
Key is offline Key  United States
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Not every consumer is that ignorant to the art. Most recordings are multitracked and use instruments that don't exist in nature. How would anybody define "the performance" here? The artificial recording IS the performance. If you alter that, then you alter the art.
This assumes that the engineer has 100% control over the virtual acoustics on the recording and his speaker layout and selection is the best possible combination to project back an accurate acoustic space.

The truth is that if the recording used matrix micing in anyway or even a reverb based on psychoacoustics that there is a much more accurate way to project that encoded image back than any form of conventional stereo system. Even if that is what the engineers used.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 03:34 PM   #495
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That doesn't change anything I said.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 03:42 PM   #496
Key is offline Key  United States
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Maybe not for you. But the truth is that the engineer and artist do not have 100% control of the recording. There are always things that will be out of their hands and there are just inherent limitations of stereo psychoacoustics.

If you can objectively project back more of the sound scape which allows you to effectively see into the mix much clearer than the engineer and artist then why should you cripple your playback in a vain guessing game with the aim at accuracy?
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Old 23rd February 2010, 04:13 PM   #497
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
The artificial recording IS the performance. If you alter that, then you alter the art.
let me put it straight - so what?

if the "spatial" part of the "art" can be altered so that we have more fun with the rest of the "art" then the question is why not?
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Old 23rd February 2010, 04:27 PM   #498
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Until you can learn to seperate those two very distinct things - the performance and the reproduction - you will never understand what I am talking about.
excuse me - what is the point (from perspective of a simple music lover, not a professional) of "learning to seperate those two very distinct things"?

is it becoming an audiophile? getting audiophilia as a goal in itself?

in high fidelity something is better when it brings the music closer to You so that You can have an experience that is fuller aesthetically or just more fun

high fidelity is for music lovers

BTW for everyone interested in learning to separate everything from everything in sound and music here is something interesting: Moulton Laboratories :: Golden Ears

Golde Ears - "An audio ear-training course for recording engineers, producers and musicians"
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Old 23rd February 2010, 04:32 PM   #499
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let me put it straight - so what?

if the "spatial" part of the "art" can be altered so that we have more fun with the rest of the "art" then the question is why not?
Do whatever you want. Take a pen and make your Picasso more "fun" but don't try to convince me that the painting will be more realistic afterwards.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 04:34 PM   #500
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Then when considering the objectivity of the available small room psycho acoustic studies in the literature, one should not forget the built-in bias of
good point Elias, thanks!
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