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Old 17th September 2013, 11:35 AM   #3171
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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next to be tested:

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interesting "no direct sound" placement method: Stereo Unlimited tweak
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below is what I am talking about (please take A CAREFUL NOTE OF the db scale! ):
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I think it results hole in the middle. Side wall reflections arrive in very wide angle, AND there is no strong center sound.
it depends on the stereo triangle in the room geometry and in particular on the toe in of the dipole null axis in the direction of the listener

with the right geometry there is a center sound - in form of reflections from the front wall
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Old 18th February 2014, 12:41 PM   #3172
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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generally it appears to be a consensus in literature that frequency range critical for localisation perception is >0.5 kHz

I suggested above (and with some good reasons I believe) that the important range extends roughly 0.4<4.0 kHz
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it is desirable to have 0 phase rotation of the harmonics, Griesinger showed a reason why. It all comes down to separating individual sound-streams in a 'busy' environment - coctail-party-effect. This is most effective when the harmonics have the same time-delay, so that the waveform doesn't get smeared.

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The phase needs to have constant group delay from 700 - 7 kHz as Griesinger says
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Old 18th February 2014, 07:53 PM   #3173
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Graaf,

The three quotes you listed in #3172 are all good reasons not to point speakers at the ceiling.

Last edited by weltersys; 18th February 2014 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 18th February 2014, 08:41 PM   #3174
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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is that so? why?

BTW new Swedish flooder:

OD-11 - Teenage Engineering

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/19...D-11_Flyer.pdf

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 19th February 2014, 06:18 AM   #3175
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Graaf,

The three quotes you listed in #3172 are all good reasons not to point speakers at the ceiling.
why?

Exactly what is wrong with lowering the level of the floor reflection at the expense of a higher level of the ceiling reflection?

What does it have to do with phase rotation of the harmonics or smearing of the waveform?
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Old 19th February 2014, 04:00 PM   #3176
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Originally Posted by weltersys
Graaf,

The three quotes you listed in #3172 are all good reasons not to point speakers at the ceiling.

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Originally Posted by graaf View Post
why?

Exactly what is wrong with lowering the level of the floor reflection at the expense of a higher level of the ceiling reflection?

What does it have to do with phase rotation of the harmonics or smearing of the waveform?
What is wrong with less floor and more ceiling reflections is I find it preferable to have floor and ceiling reflections to appear naturally as they would in a normal presentation. Your preference is quite different.

1)generally it appears to be a consensus in literature that frequency range critical for localisation perception is >0.5 kHz
I suggested above (and with some good reasons I believe) that the important range extends roughly 0.4<4.0 kHz

In either case, the lower range is localized at the floor, upper range from the ceiling reflection.

2)it is desirable to have 0 phase rotation of the harmonics, Griesinger showed a reason why. It all comes down to separating individual sound-streams in a 'busy' environment - coctail-party-effect. This is most effective when the harmonics have the same time-delay, so that the waveform doesn't get smeared.
Again, upper harmonics, being more directional, are reflected from the ceiling, while fundamentals are heard from both floor and ceiling, multiple different delay times.

3)The phase needs to have constant group delay from 700 - 7 kHz as Griesinger says
Phase relationships and group delay are not maintained when the first arrival times are multiple reflections. The upper range, 700-7 kHz is most smeared, as most speakers are more directional in that range.

Art
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Old 24th February 2014, 05:35 AM   #3177
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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A funny thing.. I... Sonab OA-13. .
Please a picture? I don't think there ever was model called that.

//
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Old 24th February 2014, 08:27 AM   #3178
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Oops, mine are OA-14, teak veneer. Bass drivers have been changed but tweeters are original. They are at my summer cabin and I have not had enough interest to update tweeters.
CarlssonPlanet.com &bull; Sonab OA-14
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Old 24th February 2014, 09:56 AM   #3179
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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^but old Carlsson/Sonab speakers are not floor, but wall coupled! The bass driver is placed close to the wall. Bass reflex port is downfire and it can be called floor-coupled.
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Old 24th February 2014, 10:19 AM   #3180
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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^but old Carlsson/Sonab speakers are not floor, but wall coupled!
it depends, short Carlsson speakers like OD-11, OA-52 or V-1 can be said to be floor-coupled
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