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Old 6th September 2013, 04:42 PM   #3161
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When someone brings up string instruments, a grand piano being at the top of this pinnacle instrument wise due to it's size / range, I wonder how one would recreate it's broad range acoustic center / highly reverberant sound field. Grands being laid out on a large horizontal plane acoustically reflects the similar sound a true FCUFS. Room constraints impose additional reflections that are not part of the original. If we were in the same room reproducing this we would effectively be emulating the original, but with our laughably small rooms, only mess this original mix up. That being said we shouldn't loose sight of what that original IS. It's an issue I'm sure many have pondered, most tossing out an up firing array in the trash due to the mess we've created, thinking logically that only forward firing is the only way to constrain these limitations. This has evolved into some of the more advanced designs, constant directivity / controlled directivity and believe based not on my own experience but those of others and the science behind it, would be the Synergy Horn. My hats off to Tom Danley for that.
On the opposite side of this coin of course is upfiring with all it's not so obvious complications. To me, have never heard a piano reproduced so well. This is where I have to agree with Graaf. He has that piano and can do a direct comparison. For the lack of a better word, 'Ambiance' an FCUFS provides like that of a piano. The reason I mention piano so much is that next to no speaker ever made does this "right". Years ago both my Father and Grandmother would say that was the most unrealistic sounding instrument they've ever heard and is what I should strive for. Took it upon myself to take the time to really hear what all these instruments really sound like up front in person and in different venues at distance.

The appreciation of what this provides is complicated, but more natural sounding experience, that like the real event. Also note that quality recordings sound better this way, direct in your face synthetic sound comes off sounding poorer than intended. Sadly this is the majority of recordings done. I'm sure in part the reason we have this controversy today is mostly lead by the recording industry's misunderstanding of how to record. It's the blind leading the blind.

Last edited by Greebster; 6th September 2013 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 7th September 2013, 07:44 AM   #3162
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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" I'm sure in part the reason we have this controversy today is mostly lead by the recording industry's misunderstanding of how to record. It's the blind leading the blind. "

Suits you, Sir! Grand piano is a terrific instrument, and a terrible challence to record! I find every recording sound different! It comes from the piano, mic positioning, room/hall, mixing table(effects, panning), th mixing room acoustics, recording engineer's taste, mixing engineer's and producer's taste - all together, never the same.

I would like to see a description of mic postioning and recording techique in the footnotes of an album. Usually they are mixed from nearfield and room mics. -some choirs and big orchestral works are from just a XY or Blumlein in the hall. Binaurals are rare.

Life gets easier when we remember, that instruments/orchestra always sounds different in live concerts too!
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Old 7th September 2013, 08:09 AM   #3163
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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A funny thing.. I'm at my summer cabin now, listening to a pair of "wall-coupled" Sonab OA-13. Radio broadcast had a lady singing in a whispering voice (didn't catch who) and the highs of whispering were swinging and undulating around the room in an unpleasant way. I have noticed that earlier here too. Generally I like the sound of them in this room. It might have been a mix effect too, but i doubt that.

I haven't done RT/EDT analysis of this room, but my educated guess is that room RT/EDT are fairlly low, this is all wood but not logs. Usually I get wonderful sound here and eg. live acousic guitar sounds marvellous! Obviously the hsss was at some reverberance maximum.
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Old 7th September 2013, 10:00 AM   #3164
Rudolf is offline Rudolf  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
... and the highs of whispering were swinging and undulating around the room in an unpleasant way. I have noticed that earlier here too. Generally I like the sound of them in this room. It might have been a mix effect too, but i doubt that.
Apart from any room reflections - whisper lacks lower frequency content and significant initial transients. This robs our hearing of clear localisation clues in the stereo scene.

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Old 7th September 2013, 03:04 PM   #3165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolf View Post
Apart from any room reflections - whisper lacks lower frequency content and significant initial transients. This robs our hearing of clear localisation clues in the stereo scene.

Rudolf
Akin to localization of a Duck quack. I hear it, but don't see it.
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Old 8th September 2013, 11:12 AM   #3166
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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This thread is black of ashes as it has been reborn so many times like feenix


Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
2) panned full L or full R

(tend to) seem to be coming from the speakers.

There is a solution ! 3 speaker linear stereo matrix With the matrix a speaker cannot be localised as there are 3 of them playing all the time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
But the effect IS real and some recordings (crappy recordings IMHO but nevertheless) under some circumstances suffer audibly from it.
I've been enjoying 3 flooders played through the matrix, and even the crappiest recordings got immediatelly improved and became almost pleasurable.
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Old 8th September 2013, 08:43 PM   #3167
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by Elias View Post

..I've been enjoying 3 flooders played through the matrix, and even the crappiest recordings got immediately improved and became almost pleasurable.

Hmm, it's no longer like a monkey is trying to hump my ear..
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Old 9th September 2013, 07:13 AM   #3168
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
This thread is black of ashes as it has been reborn so many times like feenix
always back in black


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
There is a solution ! 3 speaker linear stereo matrix With the matrix a speaker cannot be localised as there are 3 of them playing all the time.
it definitely makes sense!

Can we say that the problem of the sound coming from the floor effect is solved by the matrix? Would be great news!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
I've been enjoying 3 flooders played through the matrix, and even the crappiest recordings got immediatelly improved and became almost pleasurable.
How does the 3xFCUFS matrix compare to the original stereolit-like single box one?
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Last edited by graaf; 9th September 2013 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 9th September 2013, 10:04 AM   #3169
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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ps.
Does the 3xFCUFS matrix use the same fillter as before?
I mean:
Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker
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Old 10th September 2013, 02:33 PM   #3170
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
ps.
Does the 3xFCUFS matrix use the same fillter as before?
I mean:
Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker
or is it the new "EP optimal" filter?

Does it have any SSS-like higher frequency steering element?
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