The Advantages of Floor Coupled Up-Firing Speakers - Page 292 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th June 2013, 07:53 AM   #2911
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Direct sound vs. "no direct sound"
another interesting "no direct sound" placement method: Stereo Unlimited tweak


actually it resembles the two channel SSS more than a FCUFS system (BTW - FCUFS is NOT a "no direct sound" method)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg listener in the dipole null area.jpg (53.8 KB, 215 views)
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 03:11 PM   #2912
diyAudio Member
 
Greebster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: South of the Skyway
It's also not a Bose thing, or IMHO something that can be done with a typical 2 way sitting on the floor on it's back.

Graaf,
The off axis response becomes very critical when doing this. If this direct far off axis response is compensated for everything improves.

Have you tried a small two way direct radiating at listening heigth and then added upfiring drivers with either a larger full range (top most octaves not as important) or midbasses? Would want to reduce output above say 4-5k (perhaps a tad lower in the 3k range), so something like a 8" or larger full range or midbass in the 6.5" size or larger that will do it clean with a minimal breakup peak. Using seperate amps so you have independent control over these. If you can please do

Think MTM-MM or TM-M, but the .5 is wired as another mid eg not just for BSC, just off axis up firing from the floor. Also try this with same floor firing speaker from just behind the direct radiating speaker up firing. Takes a bit of tweaking the responses for everything to meld together properly, typically reducing the direct level and/or EQ of both.

Last edited by Greebster; 27th June 2013 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Oops
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 08:39 PM   #2913
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Elias's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where you live
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
another interesting "no direct sound" placement method: Stereo Unlimited tweak

I think it results hole in the middle. Side wall reflections arrive in very wide angle, AND there is no strong center sound.

Looks like I guessed right (from the link):
Quote:
At first I didn't like it, there seemed to be an empty space between

- Elias
__________________
Liberate yourself from the illusion of two speaker stereo triangle
Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 10:49 AM   #2914
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
I think it results hole in the middle. Side wall reflections arrive in very wide angle, AND there is no strong center sound.

Looks like I guessed right (from the link):


- Elias
or rather You didn't :-)

first, because what You quoted described the sound of the setup with "the speakers facing each other, and facing the side walls", and only after then the quoted user toed the speakers in as in the scheme I posted

second, because it was not a hole really but just that "the sound just "dipped" a bit", a hole seem to be in this case a typical instance of an audiophile hyperbolic speech

third because it might just as well be a matter of an accumulated bias as the user reports that an ubiased listener immediately liked it: "My wife immediately liked it"
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 11:07 AM   #2915
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
I have just realized that indeed the same principle of making use of the dipole null is applied in the Gradient Helsinki 1.5 - the listener sits in the null of the woofer dipole.
This configuration - along with the cardioid midbass unit and waveguided tweeter - secures that no first order floor reflection reaches the listener across the whole reproduced frequency range.


However, as an alternative method of achieving this same effect the dipole null method suffers a serious disadvantage vs FCUFS - the bass level is usually subjectively insufficient and it requires an active line level compensation.
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 11:49 AM   #2916
Rudolf is offline Rudolf  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Rudolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
I think it results hole in the middle. Side wall reflections arrive in very wide angle, AND there is no strong center sound.
That's what I experienced when rotating my dipoles 90. I calculated the early reflections with James Heddles spreadsheet at http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Dip...L%20rev3-a.xls

early refl 1.gif early refl 2.gif

Left picture is what I have at home - and like . Right is the Stereo Unlimited proposal .
__________________
www.dipolplus.de
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 12:10 PM   #2917
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolf View Post
That's what I experienced when rotating my dipoles 90. I calculated the early reflections with James Heddles spreadsheet at http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Dip...L%20rev3-a.xls

Attachment 357016 Attachment 357017

Left picture is what I have at home - and like . Right is the Stereo Unlimited proposal .

But this NOT the SU method modified by toeing the dipole null (90) axis towards the listener? Because in such a case there would be NO DIRECT SOUND.

Can You try it please?

And can You post a scheme of Your room and setup's layout?
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 12:41 PM   #2918
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
BTW very nice spreadsheet - thanks for the link Rudolf

and below is what I am talking about (please take A CAREFUL NOTE OF the db scale! ):
Attached Images
File Type: jpg the 'dipole null method' - early reflections.jpg (61.5 KB, 191 views)
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz

Last edited by graaf; 28th June 2013 at 12:43 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 01:41 PM   #2919
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Elias's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where you live
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
I have just realized that indeed the same principle of making use of the dipole null is applied in the Gradient Helsinki 1.5 - the listener sits in the null of the woofer dipole.
I think the reason for sideways bass dipole is rather more practical, because it allows placing the speaker against the front wall which is very important in small European size living rooms. Very seldomly one can leavy an empty space of one meter or more behind the speakers as would be required by conventional bass dipole, and Gradient has solved the issue by rotating the bass dipole.


- Elias
__________________
Liberate yourself from the illusion of two speaker stereo triangle
Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2013, 09:59 PM   #2920
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Elias's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where you live
Japanese flooder

1960's

Toshiba SS-64
__________________
Liberate yourself from the illusion of two speaker stereo triangle
Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using a diffuser cone for up-firing speakers tspringer99 Multi-Way 19 23rd July 2014 02:04 AM
Floor Standing Speakers. gurpreetsingh Full Range 11 12th June 2012 06:42 AM
side/ rear firing speakers Good/Bad? mcmahon48 Multi-Way 1 6th February 2009 12:28 PM
How far can the driver of a down-firing sub be from the floor? The Paulinator Subwoofers 11 16th May 2007 08:10 PM
Woofer: side firing pair vs front firing? tcpip Multi-Way 13 9th September 2005 02:13 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:15 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2