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Old 1st October 2008, 12:17 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally posted by WithTarragon The basic finding (and do not start criticizing until you have actually read and digested the material) is that a "phantom" source is in fact "identical" to a what would be created via stereophony (using two speakers). He provided a phasor analysis (if I recall correctly) for the physics behind this.
Maybe my english isn't good enough and I don't understand the point you want to make but what you describe is the definition of a phantom source: two or more coherent sound signals within 1 ms fuse to one sound sensation. But this is not a physical process but something that our brain accomplishes.
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Old 1st October 2008, 12:29 PM   #282
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elias

Meaning if you place high freq sources in or very close to the frontal median plane, high freqs emitting from these sources do not disturb other localisation cues that may take place at the same time.

One famous implementation of this: Ambiophonics.
one less known - Stereolith and Stereolith-like set up

Quote:
Originally posted by Elias

I think you are wishing too much. I would be happy even for ONE stable phantom source under reverberant conditions
why?
speaking of reverberant conditions I mean normal living/listening room conditions (RT60 around 0.2-0.5)
certainly not gothic cathedral echoes

so why not?

best!
graaf
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Old 1st October 2008, 12:34 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally posted by WithTarragon

The basic finding (and do not start criticizing until you have actually read and digested the material) is that a "phantom" source is in fact "identical" to a what would be created via stereophony (using two speakers). He provided a phasor analysis (if I recall correctly) for the physics behind this.
I don't understand it either

what do You mean by saying " "phantom" source is in fact "identical" to a what would be created via stereophony (using two speakers)"?

Quote:
Originally posted by WithTarragon

The other topic you guys mentioned was localization and localization with echoes/reverberation etc. The rules don't fundamentally change regarding the role of interaual cues.
Do You mean that reverberation is not detrimental to imaging (understood as localization of phantom stereophonic sources)?

could You please explain?

best regards!
graaf
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Old 4th October 2008, 09:40 PM   #284
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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I found the sweet spots for listening to synthetic productions with Carlsson speakers. They exactly form a square with the speakers. Finally a northern concept for us trolls
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Old 6th October 2008, 04:08 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally posted by el`Ol
I found the sweet spots for listening to synthetic productions with Carlsson speakers. They exactly form a square with the speakers. Finally a northern concept for us trolls
so extremely off axis?
surprising!

I wonder what is the operating principle of this

best regards!
graaf
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Old 9th October 2008, 10:31 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally posted by el`Ol
I found the sweet spots for listening to synthetic productions with Carlsson speakers. They exactly form a square with the speakers. Finally a northern concept for us trolls
I originally posted it in "Loudspeaker perception" thread but the fact is that it is no longer "stereo imaging" thread and nobody seems to be interested in discussion these issues

anyway, continuing the question of "sweet spot" (aka "stereo listening area")

Quote:
The stereo listening area is very narrow. For a basis width of 3 m, the listening area at a listener's distance of 3 m is only 21 cm wide (for loudspeakers with normal directional characteristics).
At 5 m distance it is only 38 cm wide (reverberation time about 0,5 s). For a larger basis width the listening area is even narrower. Loudspeakers with a larger radiation angle (spherical loudspeakers) increase the width of the stereo listening area by a factor of about 1,5; they have, however, the disadvantage of reduced sharpness of localization.
see: http://www9.dw-world.de/rtc/infothe...sound_perc.html

what can be explanation for this?
I mean "increase the width of the stereo listening area" with "loudspeakers with a larger radiation angle"?

on the other hand - have You experienced "reduced sharpness of localization" in Your extremely asymmetrical listening positions with Carlssons? if yes then how significant?

best regards!
graaf
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Old 9th October 2008, 11:14 AM   #287
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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When I listen to synthetic productions in the usual positions everything happens within two straight lines through my head and the speakers, so classic pingpong stereo, but with a sense of depth. Even the two perceived rooms are one-dimensional. Only the square position does a proper fusion of the two tunnels to a real three-dimensional room. There still happens less in the center, but this doesn´t sound un-realistic.
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Old 9th October 2008, 11:20 AM   #288
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I see but what about imaging? "sharpness of localization"?
is it diminished? are there realistic phantom images?
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Old 9th October 2008, 11:33 AM   #289
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Quote:
Originally posted by graaf
I see but what about imaging? "sharpness of localization"?
is it diminished? are there realistic phantom images?

No, in this respect the synthetic productions are still far behind the "real" ones. With synth productions the CFS is ahead in this respect. Me, and probably most of us, set the realism of the performers over the realism of the room, so still a recommendation of the CFS for pop/rock music.
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Old 9th October 2008, 12:10 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally posted by el`Ol

No, in this respect the synthetic productions are still far behind the "real" ones. With synth productions the CFS is ahead in this respect. Me, and probably most of us, set the realism of the performers over the realism of the room, so still a recommendation of the CFS for pop/rock music.
what about imaging with Carlssons with "real productions"?
what about imaging with CFS? which is a kind of "loudspeaker with a larger radiation angle" in the meaning used in Infotheque, quoted above
the link once again:
http://www9.dw-world.de/rtc/infotheq...c-content.html

best!
graaf
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