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Old 3rd March 2013, 11:09 PM   #1881
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post

and not just that - also cardioid radiation pattern
When I tried cardioid designs for the midrange, I could never get around the over-damping effect of the pressure-release in a small volume "enclosure".

It always seem to "suck the life" out of the drivers, and blunt spatial aspects. Yet when I read the reviews, somehow the designers have overcome this..

-peaks my curiosity.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 11:15 PM   #1882
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Here is a radial design that will necessarily "flood" the room (despite the waveguides):

Morrison Audio fine audio speakers and electronics.

Notably one of the loudspeakers from Morrison, (..and they are all essentially similar), was concluded as having the best sound-staging effects of *any* loudspeaker ever reviewed by The Absolute Sound.
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Old 4th March 2013, 06:50 AM   #1883
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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to understand Helsinki 1.5 it is useful to take a look at their precedessors in the Gradient line

first of them all were Gradient 1.1 or 1.0:

Click the image to open in full size.

more: Myydyt kaiuttimet - Classic Audio

take notice of a much bigger midbass unit, operating as a dipole in the range of 250<1500 Hz, its acoustical center closer to the floor than in the case of Helsinki

in fact all the subsequent models in the line (1.2, 1.3 etc.) used the same configuration, Helsinki is the first to employ a smaller midbass in a cardioid enclosure
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Old 4th March 2013, 07:59 AM   #1884
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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One of the inventions of 1.3 was to use the 15" driver at frequenciens where it shows remarkable directivity! This added to dipole function and upwards tilt... The tweeter section is a line array configuration with gradual low-pass, also giving more vertical directivity. The bass is downfiring, thus giving no floor reflection but utilizing floor boost!

A genius' work of art! 35 years ago!

It is my dream to clone this and utilize minidsp
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Old 4th March 2013, 08:48 AM   #1885
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
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One of the inventions of 1.3 was to use the 15" driver at frequenciens where it shows remarkable directivity! This added to dipole function and upwards tilt...
exactly - no need of a fancy cardioid enclosure

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It is my dream to clone this
no point in cloning - I believe we can make it better!
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Old 4th March 2013, 08:59 AM   #1886
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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no point in cloning - I believe we can make it better!
What is your recipe of the ideal ?
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Old 4th March 2013, 09:50 AM   #1887
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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^^ is this rebirth worthy of an own thread? I´d like to participate!

I don't have skill and measuring system to make a xo myself, it would be a pleasure to participate in a project like this. I have listened to a pair of 1.3s quite a lot at my friend's some 14 years ago. I could buy originals but "signature" remake with modern technology and knowhow would be more fun!
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Old 4th March 2013, 09:53 AM   #1888
lolo is offline lolo  France
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...... and with some Koskenkorva!
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Old 4th March 2013, 10:08 AM   #1889
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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What is your recipe of the ideal ?
I believe that floor reflection must me attenuated and low-passed as much as possible
I also believe that (and this belief seems to have been confirmed independently by Mr Croft research quoted earlier in this thread) - that we need a certain optimal ratio of direct to off ceiling reflected sound

this ratio depends on the speaker directivity, the angle at which it fires up to the ceiling and the listening distance

I also believe in the necessity of time-coherence in the sense of the wavefront fidelity - all early reflections should preserve the shape of the initial transient that reaches the listener as the direct sound

so I believe that we need an adjustable (with regard to the angle of orientation of its acoustical axis), controlled directivity and an essentially time-coherent loudspeaker, not time-coherent on axis like some, but in the sense stated above

in the light of the foregoing Gradient designs aim in the right direction but don't meet the above criteria as strictly as it is possible
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Old 4th March 2013, 10:12 AM   #1890
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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...... and with some Koskenkorva!
and some humppa music!

Eläkeläiset - Elan Humpalla - YouTube
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