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Old 26th February 2013, 11:47 AM   #1831
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
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really? What then the fuss about IACC for hall designs?
IACC is much more complex entity. The result is depending on temporal, spectral and spatial domains. Not just simple ceiling reflection.


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How can ITD not change? No difference between a 2.5 high ceiling and a 4m one?
It's simple geometry only. Assume a symmetrical spherical head for yourself, and then draw a cone coincidencing the ears. You'll see the cone surfaces are parallel with the paths from the speaker and from the ceiling reflection.


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I thought the worst offender was actually the ceiling, conclusion from the Archimedes project in DK, read it somwhere..
Offender in terms of what exactly ?


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Old 26th February 2013, 11:54 AM   #1832
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It's simple geometry only. Assume a symmetrical spherical head for yourself, and then draw a cone coincidencing the ears. You'll see the cone surfaces are parallel with the paths from the speaker and from the ceiling reflection.
Not sure what exactly you guys are discussing but the delay of the ceiling and floor reflection varies relative to the direct sound with source/receiver position and ceiling height. Please see
Floor/Ceiling Reflection Calculator
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Old 26th February 2013, 12:08 PM   #1833
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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I thought the worst offender was actually the ceiling, conclusion from the Archimedes project in DK, read it somwhere..
floor and ceiling reflections indeed ARE the worst offenders IN CASE of a conventional forward firing loudspeaker

it is VERY true, but NOT in every case
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Old 26th February 2013, 12:10 PM   #1834
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
IACC is much more complex entity. The result is depending on temporal, spectral and spatial domains. Not just simple ceiling reflection.

It's simple geometry only. Assume a symmetrical spherical head for yourself, and then draw a cone coincidencing the ears. You'll see the cone surfaces are parallel with the paths from the speaker and from the ceiling reflection.

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agreed on both points
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Old 26th February 2013, 12:48 PM   #1835
lolo is offline lolo  France
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IACC is much more complex entity. The result is depending on temporal, spectral and spatial domains. Not just simple ceiling reflection
I meant.. Initial Time Delay Gap, not Interaural Level Difference!
Why is IACC not relevant to listening rooms?
Depending on the room, the ceiling is the 2nd offender for the ITD gap.. and not particularly a good contributor to spaciousness. for a direct radiator of course!
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Old 26th February 2013, 12:56 PM   #1836
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Depending on the room, the ceiling is the 2nd offender for the ITD gap.. and not particularly a good contributor to spaciousness. for a direct radiator of course!
more broadly speaking - for a speaker design which doesn't take it into account - or even better - uses it like in a flooder type speaker, the name of which draws an analogy to a "flood lamp" used for: "Indirect lighting, or uplighting, [which] create[s] a low glare environment by uniformly lighting the ceiling"

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the ceiling is the 2nd offender for the ITD gap.
exactly what sort of sonic offence do you mean precisely?

I believe that ITD gap is just part of a complex "effect on sound" equation which should be resolved for each and one reflection quite independently ONLY

other important parts of the equation are level, angle and frequency spectrum of the reflected sound
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Last edited by graaf; 26th February 2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 26th February 2013, 01:29 PM   #1837
lolo is offline lolo  France
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My ceiling is only 2.2 high.. pure concrete. I suspect it to be responsible for my unhappiness, but wait a couple of weeks so I treat it properly.. and I can then report back.
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Old 26th February 2013, 01:46 PM   #1838
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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My ceiling is only 2.2 high.. pure concrete. I suspect it to be responsible for my unhappiness,
with conventional loudspeakers that's very probable


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but wait a couple of weeks so I treat it properly.. and I can then report back.
perhaps You could try the flooder approach more thoroughly first, with more suitable speakers

but it's up to You of course
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Old 26th February 2013, 01:49 PM   #1839
lolo is offline lolo  France
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I will, but give me time, I am cheap... and broke!!

The drivers I have at hand now are not suitable. Also bear in mind that I get almost exactly what I want from the dipoles..
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Old 26th February 2013, 02:08 PM   #1840
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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my suggestion - try some s/h coaxial minimonitors by Kef or Tannoy
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