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Old 26th February 2013, 08:39 AM   #1821
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Everyone knows the perceptual effect of ceiling reflected sound, when it is done intentionally and correctly.
everyone?? that is certainly not the impression I get here at diyaudio


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How about DIY Gradient instead ? Anyone ?
I believe that the idea can be implemented better than in this Gradient
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:40 AM   #1822
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolo View Post
ceiling reflections are good, IF they come from the sides
= a flooder in the Beveridge placement
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:42 AM   #1823
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Quote:
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Everyone knows the perceptual effect of ceiling reflected sound, when it is done intentionally and correctly.
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Phantom source elevation?
hey Elias, everyone understands?
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:57 AM   #1824
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ceiling reflections are good, IF they come from the sides, not from the center. Unless you want to kill the stereo separation?
I agree but most ceiling firing designs create first order ceiling reflections that are detrimental. Psychoacoustically most effective are side reflections from around 60 and elevated (2nd order) side reflections from around 45. The relationship between those reflections and the direct sound in terms of level is critical.
If energy radiation into all other angles isn't controlled, clarity lacks considerably. Simply pointing a rather wide dispersion speaker to room boundaries can increase spaciousness but it doesn't sound necessarily good.
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:01 AM   #1825
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
If energy radiation into all other angles isn't controlled, clarity lacks considerably. Simply pointing a rather wide dispersion speaker to room boundaries can increase spaciousness but it doesn't sound necessarily good.
Yes, but the effect depends on the recording as do most "extreme" speaker configurations, in my limited experience.
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:26 AM   #1826
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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more learned idiocy from "professional reviewers" of Gradient Helsinki speakers:

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The tweeter is a perfect example of this; the back-swept pod is not just time alignment and styling, it means the first reflection point on the ceiling is actually behind the listener. That makes a huge difference to the sound.
from: Gradient Helsinki 1.5 Loudspeaker (Hi-Fi+) | Hi-Fi+
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:34 AM   #1827
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Yes, but the effect depends on the recording as do most "extreme" speaker configurations, in my limited experience.
I agree. The reflection level should be adjustable by the user. I don't believe there's a one-size-fits-all solution. Reflection patterns need to be adjustable to the room and the recording. These are issues multichannel is trying to solve. We're not there yet.

Last edited by markus76; 26th February 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 26th February 2013, 10:01 AM   #1828
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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I agree. The reflection level should be adjustable by the user.
should be and could be and IS and everyone does it! very easily
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Old 26th February 2013, 10:20 AM   #1829
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolo View Post
ceiling reflections are good, IF they come from the sides, not from the center. Unless you want to kill the stereo separation?

You know that the direct sound from a speaker and the ceiling reflection of it arrives in exactly the same angle relative to the median plane. The ITD does not change, nor there is any killing of stereo separation.


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Old 26th February 2013, 10:40 AM   #1830
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really? What then the fuss about IACC for hall designs?
How can ITD not change? No difference between a 2.5 high ceiling and a 4m one?
I thought the worst offender was actually the ceiling, conclusion from the Archimedes project in DK, read it somwhere..
Same goes with the front wall, the middle is no good.. loss of clarity and no particular spatial contribution.

Last edited by lolo; 26th February 2013 at 10:43 AM.
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