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Old 9th October 2012, 12:46 AM   #1781
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
...
how high does DML reach?
Top of my RTA shows, 20kHz.

It's an overall downtilt response, rolling off towards HF with a very shallow slope, but no abrupt drop. It keeps this trend all the way to the top.

Above 3kHz, (very) nearfield SPL of WG'ed tweeter is obviously higher than the DML panel. But their actual contributions to the in room response are hard to tell.
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Old 9th October 2012, 07:35 AM   #1782
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal View Post
Elias, width is 5 meters and I can put SSS also easily. Just was looking for ways how to combine such embient effect with Infinite baffle (which has its own advantages also but totally "flat" soundstage)
It may be best to build a prototype. Then you'll get immediate feedback how it sounds.
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Old 9th October 2012, 08:40 AM   #1783
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yes, agree. Just hoped may be someone tried already.
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Old 9th October 2012, 03:53 PM   #1784
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post
It's a 3-ch linear matrix system. Left = L-0.5R / Center = 0.5 (R+L) / Right = R-0.5L

It was originally DML panels for all 3-ch, and then the side channels were replaced by the current OB (for its much narrower dispersion). So I've yet to tried OB alone except briefly tests of the xover tuning in this setup.
So did you try the matrix with three identical dipoles ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post
It's hard for me to go back to 2-ch stereo.
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Old 9th October 2012, 03:54 PM   #1785
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal View Post
Just hoped may be someone tried already.
Unfortunately it may not be that popular yet

If you do, let us know how it goes.
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Old 10th October 2012, 01:49 AM   #1786
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by Elias View Post
So did you try the matrix with three identical dipoles ?

...
I didn't, for pratical reaon The room is too shallow to find proper space behind dipole central channel.

He did => Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker




BTW, TBH my matrix is not a 'standard' one with x=0.5. Becuase the dispersing characters are very differet among the center and sides, their effective volumes and frequency responses to the listening position (or the whole space) are difficult to be sure. Oh well, my measuring skill is lousy, too

Nevertheless, eventually my central DML panel is quieter than it should, also with less HF content compared to the sides. So overall it's probably similar to the shelfing filter you proposed.

And, AFAIK, the mega system mentioned above used similar filter on the central array, too

Last edited by CLS; 10th October 2012 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 10th October 2012, 06:48 AM   #1787
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post
He tested pretty much everything, even a flooded 12'' whizzered bare driver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radugazon View Post
In despite of my deficient hearing, my improper room and as a result my approximative speakers, I've done some acoustical funny tests.

"The" driver is an indonesian made 12" with a mega wizzer. It's filmsy coil and 39 g mms claim 15000 Hz. Its other great quality is it's price (33 euros for both).

As the goal of this game is only comparative, the configuration "naked driver" + digital equalisation will be enough. Of course, without EQ, it's a nightmare. They are also extremely directive in the HF.


...
Experience 2 :

Same drivers, same EQ, this time simply put on the floor, as close as possible from the back boundary, 4.5 m from each other, 6 meters from the listener.
Since a while I wanted to verify this, to make sure that graaf or tinitus were not too sick.

Result : it's shocking when considering that it's the same drivers than 1 minute ago. All the claims of these gentlemen are real, with the drivers set up like a flower pot (but decoupled from the floor with thick rubber).
Not only the soundstage occupies all the wall (9 meters here) but there is eventually a strong center presence, it's ok for girl and guitar as for giant choruses or symphony. The trains circulate progressively. I insist it's not a mess up.
The Hf is not perceptually reduced (- 2 dB roll off at measure), and that's puzzling because the part over 2500 Hz stays in a 10° cone @ 0 dB. Even with one only running, the source is unlocalizable. Subs are not mandatory except for organ.

For me, adept of multi ways-multi amped systems, this is a double bottom kick : the flooder and the FR. Just the envelopment and perspective are not very good, all this is a kind of 2D image. But for 33 euros...

...
Experience 3 :

Same drivers, but now almost stuck by the magnet, back to back. You will all recognize a side firing, but it's also a linear quadrupole. The big novelty is that this time the drivers are only at 1 meter in front of the listener in the horizontal plane. But in the vertical plane they are 3 meters high, and still far from the ceiling.
...
The restitution style is globally close from the flooder but complementary : more envelopment, but missing the beautiful center presence.

A good idea could be a combination of both : flooder + glider(!), trivial, one for the center, one for the sides (envelopment), all this with some wood around the drivers and a DSP able to control their respective EQ and delay.

however I believe that with lower directivity speaker then 12" used by Radugazon, better dispersion of a better highs, and moved further from the front wall preferably into a Beveridge placement the flooder itself can achieve the same level of 3D

frankly speaking after the above quoted post I came to believe that my mission here had ended when all that seems to be really needed for best sound is a suitable bare driver, optimized stereo triangle geometry and an affordable EQ of the Behringer kind which means ...no fancy carpentry at all?? no sophisticated soldering of fancy ribbon aircores and PIOs? ...then it is obvious that there is no chance of success for such a solution here at diy speaker forum

Last edited by graaf; 10th October 2012 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 10th October 2012, 10:28 AM   #1788
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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graaf has just earned himself a short break. Anymore OT posts, provocation and disruptive behaviour may well see permanent suspension of posting privileges.
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Old 31st October 2012, 11:14 AM   #1789
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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interesting flooder experiments:

6moons audio reviews: Polking fun at DIY speakers

Quote:
The upfiring model has the same bass inadequacy which could easily be compensated with a pair of subwoofers. Ambience is the real killer. The atmospheric presence is so airy and natural that it transcends hifi to a musical illusion that can be linked only to live concerts. It breaks all the laws of hifi attributes. It makes me wonder whether performer localization we’ve treasured so much might have grown too pin-point sharp to remain real.
indeed adjustable pivoting ceiling speakers seem to be perfect for flooder arrangement - this is my latest find in the field, quite independent from this 6moons article which I discovered just today - the desired ratio of direct/reflected can be easily adjusted ad hoc to listener's preferences

I think that Monitor Audio 380LCR would be a very interesting high quality driver for the purpose

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Old 1st November 2012, 12:48 PM   #1790
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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6moon's experiments and implementation looks more like Pluto with omni midrange and tweeter aimed to listener and they are quite high not at the floor.

I've also had the idea of having the tweeter mounted on a hinge to adjust the direct to reflection ratio. All of my experiments say tweeter should not be aimed directly to the listener, or otherwise the speakers become localisable which is naturally not the goal.


- Elias
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