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Old 21st March 2011, 10:53 AM   #1541
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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you are always welcome!
indeed NXT's and their properties are very interesting from the perspective of L&R considerations
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Old 22nd March 2011, 02:45 AM   #1542
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post

It doesn't matter what exactly tinitus had said over there.
I hope not

and it is kind of difficult to describe a 'speaker' having all its drivers scattered over the floor
even bumping around, occationally
but dammit, it works
if only it didnt, and I could just 'throw it away'

fortunately there's someone who wants it
and my task is to put it in a more practical construction
now, the interesting part is whether it looses or gains from this
well, each 'speaker' holds a 15" and a 10", as well as a 2" 'tweeter
15" on the back
the job is to make it look like nothing
or in other words, something discrete
they dont want it
and hate it even more if doesnt sound good

obviously this is not a highend thing
is just something that spreads nice music in a living room, all day long, if needed
hell, a tiny 2way placed close to the ceiling could that too
but not with bass like this one
I hope to reveal the details later, if worth it
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DIPOL omni.JPG (20.9 KB, 311 views)
File Type: jpg Dipole Jesper.JPG (71.6 KB, 316 views)
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Old 22nd March 2011, 09:14 AM   #1543
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
I hope not

and it is kind of difficult to describe a 'speaker' having all its drivers scattered over the floor
even bumping around, occationally
but dammit, it works
if only it didnt, and I could just 'throw it away'
thank You!
tell me please how are they placed WRT the room boundaries and the listeners position
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Old 24th March 2011, 10:34 AM   #1544
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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nice calculator, simple but nicely illustrative
Floor/Ceiling Reflection Calculator

thank You DBMandrake!
'Flat' is not correct for a stereo system ?

in case of an 8" in a 20 cm high flooder it can be said that there is no perceivable floor bounce as first cancellation can occur at 1213 Hz and the driver is already beaming at this frequency
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Old 1st April 2011, 02:19 PM   #1545
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Yes I'm aware of white paper white_paper but I cannot see any figures there, they are blank.

- Elias
basically the following is the whole "theory", easy to comprehend even without the missing pictures (I have seen them couple of years ago before they disappeared, nothing special):

Quote:
In stereo, an exact and precise "image" of the orchestra is desired: violins on the left, cello and bass on the right, and so on. Such an image is best produced when at least 10 milliseconds of the first-arrival energy is delivered to the listener with no overlap of sound from image speakers to produce confusion.

180 degree cylindrical wave speakers meet this criterion. No near reflection paths are present and no near image speakers appear. All four image speakers are far enough away from the primary speakers for a clear and unencumbered packet of first-arrival energy to be perceived. A precise stereo image is formed.
sounds pretty standard - the aim is "first 10 ms free from reflected sound", a conclusion that even Dr Geddes would approve
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Old 1st April 2011, 03:14 PM   #1546
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Hi tinitus,

Are you reinventing the wheel, like me?

Innerworld Audio - Whaferdale SFB3

Click the image to open in full size.


- Elias


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
I hope not

and it is kind of difficult to describe a 'speaker' having all its drivers scattered over the floor
even bumping around, occationally
but dammit, it works
if only it didnt, and I could just 'throw it away'

fortunately there's someone who wants it
and my task is to put it in a more practical construction
now, the interesting part is whether it looses or gains from this
well, each 'speaker' holds a 15" and a 10", as well as a 2" 'tweeter
15" on the back
the job is to make it look like nothing
or in other words, something discrete
they dont want it
and hate it even more if doesnt sound good

obviously this is not a highend thing
is just something that spreads nice music in a living room, all day long, if needed
hell, a tiny 2way placed close to the ceiling could that too
but not with bass like this one
I hope to reveal the details later, if worth it
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Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 1st April 2011, 03:33 PM   #1547
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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It appers to me that Beveridge has the same faults as stereo triangle in inconsistent pinna cues with the intended phantom which destroys the imaging when turning the head sideways. To me this is not acceptable.

Ok, flooder then, how does it fit in the 10ms camp?

As I measured my floor placed 2-way speaker facing the ceiling I get multiple reflections before 10ms. See posts 1484 - 1485.

I understand Beveridge was extensively to eliminate the reflections.

- Elias

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
basically the following is the whole "theory", easy to comprehend even without the missing pictures (I have seen them couple of years ago before they disappeared, nothing special):



sounds pretty standard - the aim is "first 10 ms free from reflected sound", a conclusion that even Dr Geddes would approve
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Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 1st April 2011, 03:35 PM   #1548
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
as far as I can understand from His posts tinitus is indeed heading towards constructing a kind of a baffle speaker similar to SFB3 but for now it is really like drivers scattered over the floor just resting on their magnets and pointing upwards - flooder in it's purest form
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Old 1st April 2011, 07:36 PM   #1549
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
It appers to me that Beveridge has the same faults as stereo triangle in inconsistent pinna cues with the intended phantom which destroys the imaging when turning the head sideways. To me this is not acceptable.
well, frankly speaking, the only thing I consider myself unacceptable is bad sound
I say break all the rules! keep just this one - what sucks is out

theoretical positions of Beveridge interest me as much as theoretical positions of Schupbach - that is not at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Ok, flooder then, how does it fit in the 10ms camp?
(...)
See posts 1484 - 1485.
well, that totally depends on room size and the overall geometry of the arrangement
for calculation of reflection delays achievable in a rather small room (350 cm wide and 550 cm long) see post 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
The positioning would give very early reflections (VER) <1 ms from adjacent wall. (...)
Apart from those (...)
- significant reflections off the adjacent wall would not reach the listener
- floor reflection would not reach the listener
- first reflections off the front wall and off the back wall would reach the listener 9.3 ms after the first wavefront
- first reflections off opposite walls would reach the listener 8.3 ms after the first wavefront
- first reflections off the ceiling would reach the listener 8.8 ms after the first wavefront (ear at height of 90 cm, ceiling at height of 300 cm)
of course in bigger room, different setup arrangement, higher delays are achievable

but I don't think it is at all needed because just as in case of back-to-back with flooders I can walk around the room, so reflection patterns constantly changing, and the sound images remain stable just there

so I don't know what is the operating principle, what about HRTF, pinna functions and so on

but it works
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Old 2nd April 2011, 09:36 AM   #1550
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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here is Bremen - a Swedish flooder :
Bremen

a request to Swedish users - can anyone check this Bremen thing?

here is an enthusiastic review of a presentation at Swedish Hi End 2011 Show:
| NOMONO

google translated excerpt:
Quote:
And did you miss this room - shame on you, we had an experience that I did not think possible with a sound stage where you just go straight into the music walls, rooms and ceilings disappear simply and you find yourself directly in the middle of the events. I do not know how it worked when the room was full of people, but when we were there it was sensational, simply.
and two pictures - close-up and sidewall placement, similar in that to Beveridge, although the company doesn't recommend any specific placement
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bremen flooder close-up.jpg (29.1 KB, 200 views)
File Type: jpg Bremen flooder side placement.jpg (78.4 KB, 654 views)
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Last edited by graaf; 2nd April 2011 at 09:39 AM.
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